Finding Your Truth: Dowsing & Labyrinths with Sandi Isgro

00:00 Introduction to Dowsing and Labyrinths

03:24 The Experience of Walking a Labyrinth

08:03 The Purpose and Benefits of Labyrinths

11:43 The Connection Between Labyrinths and the Inner Ear

14:37 The Calming Effect of Labyrinths on the Conscious Mind

16:04 Dowsing and Setting Labyrinths

21:21 Using Dowsing to Find Ley Lines

24:38 The History of Dowsing and Persecution of Wisdom Keepers

33:36 The Oracle Delphi and Ley Lines

41:42 Introduction to ASD (American Society of Dowsers)

43:09 The Art of the Question

44:07 Exploring Dowsing at ASD Conventions

47:46 Runes and Labyrinths

51:59 The Energy and Symbolism of Runes

56:10 Runic Labyrinths and Amplifying Vibratory Frequencies

58:57 Radionics vs. Runic Labyrinths

01:03:50 The Power of Dowsing and Finding Your Truth

Ready to have a deeper conversation about body and soul, sacred leadership, and our collective evolution? Welcome to the Wise Body, Ancient Soul podcast with me, your host, Charisse Sisou.

Introduction to Dowsing and Labyrinths

Okay. Alrighty. Okay. Ready? Yeah, I’m ready. Okay. Okay. I love technology. Okay, good. So in your bio, you talk about the first time that you used, uh, that you were introduced to dowsing rods in placing a labyrinth.

And from there, you know, just experiencing that from there, you were hooked. Tell me more about that experience. Like, yeah. Well, it was one of those things out of body, out of mind. I went to a retreat that was put on by the Spirit of Change magazine, and it was at a boys camp in upstate New York. And very.

rustic log cabins, you know, big tall old trees. It was an older camp and I got there just in time for dinner and I wanted to do a sweat lodge because I’d had some stuff going on and I wanted just to get rid of all the old baggage and I thought that’s what I needed. Well, after dinner it was dark and so they wanted you to go find your cabin where the leader of whatever

thing you had signed up for was going to be talking about next day’s events. I didn’t bring a flashlight. I didn’t know where I was going. It’s dark. It’s in the woods and all these little cabins are in the woods and I had no idea where I was going. I couldn’t find it. So I ended up in a storytelling event. And so the next day when I went to go to the sweat lodge, they were like, you can’t do that.

because you are not there at the evening event. So you’re not prepared. And I’m like, what? So the only thing they had open was this labyrinth workshop. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I was like, okay, I guess. And so I walked out the door of the dining hall and this guy comes up to me and he says, Hey, would you hold my drum? I can’t take my drum in my workshop. And I’m like, yeah.

Charisse Sisou (02:25.774)

guess, I don’t know. And it was a black drum. I’ve never seen a black drum in my life. But the skin was completely black. So I walked with the group down to the river bank was a sandy beach, you know, lots of pine and, and overhanging trees and things like that. But it did have enough sand, like a beach sand that you know, the instructor could make a labyrinth. And he’s,

started using dowsing rods, you know, just like this, you know, dowsing rods. And he was trying to find the center of the labyrinth and then which way it should be facing. And so I’m like, okay, I don’t even know what a labyrinth is. But I was fascinated with these rods going back and forth and him getting answers and saying, okay, this is where it should be. And I’m like, how does he know that? How does it know that? Why are those things moving?

and they’re moving opposite to the way he’s walking. What kind of weird thing did I get into? So, you know, we make the labyrinth, we draw out the lines and everything for the labyrinth. And he said, well, you’ve got the drum, why don’t you, you know, drum while we walk it? And I’m like, I have no idea how to use this thing. I’ve never drummed in my life.

He goes, oh, well, it’s easy. And I said, well, here, you can take it. He goes, I’m not touching that thing.

and nobody else in the group wanted to do it either. So I just said, okay, I’ll try.

The Experience of Walking a Labyrinth

And so I, you know, pat it out of beat. Everybody walked the labyrinth. And then he was doing, showing everybody how they can use the dowsing rods to show somebody’s physical fields, the physical, emotional, mental speed fields, and how much they had changed just by walking the labyrinth. And I’m again, going, what is up with that?

So when you say physical fields, like talking about their energetic fields, like of their bodies. Right. So you have four fields that are that surround your body. It’s your emotional field is first emotional, mental, spiritual, no, back up physical, emotional, mental, spiritual. So each of those fields surrounds your body and they should be in that order when they’re flipped, then.

You’ve had some trauma. Something’s happened that you flip those fields because you don’t want, it’s kind of like a barrier. So you’re trying to keep whatever happened away from you. You’re protecting that field that got damaged. So let’s just say somebody mentally abused you. So you’re going to keep that mental field, not where it’s supposed to be, but real close to your chest.

where nobody else can hurt you anymore that way. But when that happens, you’re also messing up your electrical fields. Now, all I’m saying here is things I’ve learned after the effect. But as a newbie watching this happen, where the fields could expand three, four times what they were before, my little eyeballs were like, whoa, how amazing is this? And I got…

totally enamored with the dowsing rods and dowsing. And then I met a lady at this same festival and she goes, oh, well, I know a dowser and she’s giving classes. You want to go with me? Cause I’ve always been interested in that. And that’s what started my journey in dowsing. That’s amazing. Yeah. Well, and also what started your journey with the labyrinths. Yes. I so associate you with that.

Charisse Sisou (06:33.678)

And oh my gosh, that’s amazing how. The two things were exactly the same time and I was supposed to be introduced to them and they were supposed to be intertwined, which I found they are, you know, through later learning. They’re definitely intertwined. You have to find the exact center. You’re looking for ley lines. You’re looking for the optimum, you know,

path width and orientation. Hold that thought. We’ll just wait for the phone to stop ringing because I can hear it in the background. I would have to pick it up to make it stop. Oh no, it stopped. Oh, OK. No idea. I can always just fire it up. Yeah. There you go. The power of editing. OK, perfect. So you were saying, let me just.

take a step back. So you were talking about, yeah, just repeat that what you were just saying. So the fact that the two things are very intertwined because labyrinths have to be laid in place in accordance with the land and the land’s energy in order to make them the most effective for people that are going to be walking them, whether that’s a spiritual walk or that’s a healing walk or

in any number of other things, because basically, a labyrinth, what it does in a very quick synopsis, is it takes you right to the center of your being and connects you with spirit.

The Purpose and Benefits of Labyrinths

Because as you walk those pathways back and forth, your conscious mind shuts down, because it makes no sense to walk away from where you want to be, where your center is, or where your goal is. And so the conscious mind just shuts down. Well, when you

get out of your conscious mind, you get into the unconscious, by the time you reach the center of the labyrinth, you’re now connecting to the vortices that are there to both all that’s above and all that’s below. And the two things connect within your body, you know, right about center point of your body, which is your, your solar plexus. So I mean, your heart center solar plexus so that

Charisse Sisou (08:59.15)

that you become part of all that is, and you’re in a very calm state. And at that point, magic happens, all kinds of things happen. And you can know the truth, you can see clearly because you’re no longer embroiled in the emotional monkey mind, conscious mind, and connected to source. That’s profound. And labyrinths have been around.

you’re the expert. How long have the stones been around? Longer than humans? Well, we have a carved one that predates human history. The stone predates human history. So how was it carved before humans were supposed to be around? Who knows?

The Connection Between Labyrinths and the Inner Ear

The other, the other very interesting part of that is that your body, your DNA carries a labyrinth in the inner ear. It looks like a labyrinth and does the same kind of thing. It translates sound wave into a pattern that your brain can recognize as language. So what’s a labyrinth doing? It’s getting rid of all this chaos and making a pattern.

for connection. Right. It’s when you’re in chaos and your conscious mind is going crazy. You can’t connect to source. You can’t find a calm place where your mind can make a pattern or make sense of anything. And that’s what it does. You know, in a very easy way. It’s very easy to do it. You can even do it with a paper labyrinth.

The Calming Effect of Labyrinths on the Conscious Mind

You know, it’s a very great tool to calm down that conscious monkey mind. Like the one that you sent me, this is a particular one, but yeah, just as a visual for the folks watching. Yeah, this, when you told me about this, this makes so much sense to me. When, when you talked about that connection with the ear, it, and how it organizes information into language, like,

Charisse Sisou (11:16.494)

that we can understand. Into pattern that your brain recognizes as language. Yeah. If you don’t have that peace, if you’re born without that peace, you can never have language. You can be taught, but you don’t have the language. If you lose it, like in a car accident or something like that, where that is damaged, then you can regain language.

So when you walk a labyrinth or even just trace one on a paper and it’s organizing, like how is it organizing patterns there? Like it’s not language, right? So then how would you? No, what it’s doing is it’s calming down the conscious mind. So in other words, once the conscious mind stops churning, like, oh my God, I got to pick up the kids at four o ‘clock. I only have five minutes.

And I’ve got to do this and I’ve got to do that. And how am I going to face my boss tomorrow when I tell him I can’t come in and, you on these dates and he’s going to want me there. And then there’s going to be a big fight and all of this stuff. And what you’re really trying to do is just calm down so you can figure out you. Like you just, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re actually, you can’t function if you’re going crazy like this in your mind.

You’re not functioning. So what it does is it calms that conscious mind down. The conscious mind has got to give up. So it’s kind of like going on overload, but it’s calming that down because the conscious mind is facing something it can’t comprehend. You cannot walk away from something you want to go to.

It’s impossible. So the mind goes, okay, impossible, done. I can’t figure that one out. I can’t even come up with a monkey way of seeing that, that if I jump over these lines, but no, I have to walk. And that’s the monkey way. Okay. I just got what you were saying because when you’re walking a labyrinth or tracing it, you’re walking away from the center and yet you end up in the center. Correct. Every other way takes you away.

Charisse Sisou (13:37.55)

not towards. And so it keeps the conscious mind at bay. And then the unconscious mind can center itself and answer the deeper questions, which is why am I doing this if I don’t like this job? Why am I creating more chaos in my life? Wouldn’t it be simpler if I just formed maybe a mom’s pickup?

group and several mothers in the neighborhood pick a date and they pick up all the kids and drop them off, then I wouldn’t have to be rushing around and maybe getting into a car crash or anything else trying to rush to get my kid and then feeling like a bad mother because I’m not there on time and my kid’s the last one standing there with the teacher. You know, it’s such a great example that you give because it’s like we can’t see the solution.

when we’re in monkey mind, it’s calm, all of that. That’s when we can hear our intuition. That’s what we can hear guides, guidance, ancestors, creator, all that is. Right. Yes. And when you get to the center, then your energy fields are all brought back into alignment because you are in that center pole of flow of energy.

You’re not blocking it in any way. And it’s actually meeting from the earth to you and from above to you. And it’s actually meeting in you. And you’re the channel between the two because it’s flowing back and forth between you. Your energy is going up or the energy coming up from the earth is coming through you and going up. The energy from above is coming back down through you and into the earth. So that channel is now clear.

And it’s flowing through you. So all of your fields then come back into order. All of your chakras start to work in the correct pattern. You’re not sitting there going, oh, this chakra is closed down. Okay. Let’s open it back up again. No, you just did it in a beautiful walk. Yeah. It puts you back in tune again. It does. It absolutely does.

Charisse Sisou (16:04.302)

I want to bring it back to the dowsing. So how did the dowsing fit in? Like, what are you looking for in setting a labyrinth? What are you looking to connect with? Or yeah, like just walk me through that. Okay. So dowsing allows you to do that same connection that the labyrinth does, okay, with your tools. And it allows that.

consciousness to actually speak to you. You ask a question and you get an answer, whether through your higher self connecting or however you want to see that connection happening. But the dowsing rods or the dowsing pendulum or the dowsing forks, whatever you’re using is actually giving you the visual of an answer. Like someone talking to you, like we’re talking right now. Yeah. So.

If I’m looking at a space and I’m saying, okay, I want to have a labyrinth for children to play, you know, to, to, you know, be, to have a labyrinth to walk and to play with and to be on where they can again, find that calm state, but it’s also for them. So it’s a fun, you know, I want them to have fun and I want them to enjoy this. Okay. Now I use the dowsing rounds to say,

Okay, is this possible? So now I’m talking to the land, to the trees, to the rock spirits, to all of the nature spirits that live there. Is this possible? Will you support this? Dowsing rods tell me yes or no. If it’s a no, we forget it. If it’s a yes, okay, let’s go forward. So if the land will support it, and I’m gonna use land as a total of the area, everything that lives there or is there in that area.

they have to support it. Okay, so this is what I want to do. Is that acceptable? Yes or no? Okay, and I’m dowsing all of this. Okay, if that’s acceptable, then where is the center of this supposed to be for the highest investigative law? Can’t find the center. Okay, now what? Which way should it face? I get a direction. This is the way it should face. So when you get to the center of it, it should face a certain way.

Charisse Sisou (18:32.494)

And again, we’re talking about building this for kids. Okay. So you want them to have fun. So I would imagine that whatever way it’s going to be facing, the kids are going to be seeing something that’s going to make them giggle and laugh. Something funny, you know, something cool. Well, yeah, everybody wants to have fun too. There’s a great one that was built in Saffron Walden, England, and it’s built in their town.

park and it has it’s has it’s an interesting thing but let’s imagine it has that center that you have right there you know the one that you showed and then it has four little pods so four little like feet on it so when you walk it you walk in and you end up in one of these little feet but the little feet are actually conical so the land the ground goes up into like a little comb so you’re walking kind of up into a little spiral and then

You know, you could roll down it instead of walk back down, but you know, it’s kind of fun. Or you could just lay on the top of it and giggle and roll down. And I watched kids do this all day long and they run around in that. So, and that one was built by children for children. It was built by school. Yeah. And it was built with kids built it. And it was a school thing. It’s in the middle of the town park.

It’s a great labyrinth for fun and it’s a fun labyrinth. There is no way you can walk that seriously. No way. It’s just too much fun. You know, it’s like the playful energy. Yeah, that playful energy is just in there. And that’s how you keep using the dowsing. You’re asking questions as to how to make this the highest and best good. How wide should the pass be through your dowsing? And then you keep going. When we work with one that you showed,

recently, that’s called a DNA labyrinth. So the rooms in there are like vibrational symbols. And their purpose within the labyrinth there is that they will help to repair damaged DNA when you walk the labyrinth. And you will only get what you need from each one of those vibrations within that pathway. And again, you would dials for that.

Charisse Sisou (20:57.102)

So dowsing plays a very important part in all of this. It also, when you’re building a labyrinth, you’re also looking for ley lines going through there. Is there a ley line? Labyrinths use ley lines as energy conductors, kind of like wiring, and they wire themselves to other sacred places. Though.

that’s a cool thing to be looking for when you’re building a labyrinth. And the way you do it is again with your dowsing rods to find is there a ley line? Which way does it go? Where is it? What’s its flow? Is it going north, south, east, west? How’s it flowing? Yeah. And for folks who might be new to a concept like ley lines, how would you define that? Look at the human body.

Okay, so you have a vein system. And those veins, they lay line are the veins, lay lines are the veins of the earth. So you would have huge ones, which are the arteries, you would have smaller ones with your veins, you’d have tiny ones with your capillaries. And all of these form the body or feed the body now the body of the earth with

impulses or electrical current, if you want to call it that. So it’s a great way of sending a message around the world quickly. It could also be like a nervous system, but it’s that. Yes, My nervous system is the same thing. You have huge nerves and you have smaller nerves and you have tiny nerves. And all of that’s connected.

So you could do it that way. I mean, but dowsing allows you to find out information. That is the biggest thing dowsing does. And the more you practice it, the better you get at it and the better information you get. It’s a lot of practice. You know, practice.

Charisse Sisou (23:07.726)

So I’ve been doing that kind of dowsing for a long time. And you can also use the dowsing in labyrinths to create special labyrinths for like there, we’ve now created labyrinths at hospitals. So those labyrinths, their purpose is to actually help people heal. So when they’re going into a situation where they’re gonna go,

have surgery or whatever. They can walk a labyrinth. Again, it does the same thing. It brings you to that calm state. Very helpful in an operation. The calmer the person, calmer the body, more relaxed the body, the better the operation goes. But dowsing is used to set that. It’s to actually to find out where the energies are in order for you to create something.

that works to the highest investigate of all and to your purpose.

Charisse Sisou (24:11.544)

Excellent. Oh my goodness, there’s so many juicy things to talk about here. Well, you mentioned runes, but before we, you are such an expert on so many topics. Before we even dive into that, I would love, one of the first things that you told me when I met you was the history, in a nutshell, how Dowsing got started, where this comes from.

And I would love for you to share that. I’d love for you to share that with us, with the audience today. Do you remember? Well, give me a hint. Are you talking about Aboriginal dowsing? Are you talking about? No, but I would love to know about that. So when I first met you at the American Society of Dowsers, like the convention a couple of years back,

And I was like, this is great. What’s dowsing? And I was saying that I really, what’s does it. And you said, you talked about, um, you tied it to the, like the protecting wisdom, like the people who were, um, carrying this wisdom, wisdom, the wisdom keepers. Yeah. We’re being persecuted and we’re, I mean, they were, they were, they were dying. They were being hunted. And so, yeah.

Okay. That was the story that was like, okay, tell me more. Yeah. Okay. So let’s go back even further to start. Yes, please. Because this is dowsing is something that we it’s, it’s a muscle. Okay. Let’s just call it that. It’s a muscle. Ancient peoples did not view the world the same way we did. They view the world as they are part of it. Yes. They’re not separate from it. They’re part of it.

There is not a self which is individualized and not part of everything else. They do not view themselves as separate. So dowsing was a way, it’s that innate knowledge or that muscle that was very, very strong back then where they actually would ask for direction, ask for guidance, talk to the animals because the animal was a

Charisse Sisou (26:35.31)

brother, the bird was a sister, the land was part of them, not separate from them. They were not walking on the land, the land was allowing them to walk on the land. It was supporting their footsteps. So it’s a whole different way, a different worldview than what we have now. As we come down the centuries, that muscle,

you want to speak about that, that muscle was not used as we became more self oriented, I, I, I, as we separated from the us, we, and became more the I, those that knew things in the old way, it’s called that the old way, the original way of knowing things that you’re all connected.

Those people were seen as the oracles, okay? The truth -sayer, the gypsy who you would go to to find out information. The women that would know whether you’re carrying a boy or a girl know it because they asked, because they were part of. The unborn child is not a separate entity from the mother or the mother’s mother or the mother’s mother’s mother.

So that connection that we are all one statement allowed these people to ask questions and get answers. And as that became something that was looked on as how did you do that? How did you know that? They became, people became afraid of that ability. That’s a good way of putting it. So, you know, you start looking,

coming down the centuries, people that could still use that ability and hone that ability became either magicians, okay, look at Merlin. He was a dowser, sorry, he was a dowser. And he used his staff as his dowsing stick. I mean, he really was a dowser.

Charisse Sisou (29:03.918)

He knew information, he knew how to do things, and he knew how to move things because he still had honed that ability of being part of everything. So if you’re part of it, it’s part of you, it’s kind of like moving your hand. You’re not separate from it, so you say, oh, I want to pick that up, and your hand picks it up, or your mind picks it up. OK, and then keep coming down the centuries, and these men and women that had this ability became people that

were scary because you didn’t want them to know whether you stole that piece of gold or know when you slept with somebody else’s wife or know what you were gonna do next or when the weather was gonna change or where the well was, where the water was. So what happened was we have the witch hunts, we have the persecution of wise women and

men and the way that they saved themselves was to become dowsers with dowsers for water because everybody needs water. You’re not going to kill the person that finds you water.

And that’s a big huge way that they kind of went underground and dowsing went underground and when the organization was first started, it was all about water and wells. Because even though they talked about things that were unseen, unverifiable,

And they doused for human energy fields and they doused for lost and missing persons and they doused for energy blockages and they could do healing and things like that. They hit it under water because nobody’s going to be afraid of that.

Charisse Sisou (31:04.878)

So did, is it the term that, cause I’m thinking as I, as you’re talking about this, I’m like, Oh, of course. Cause it, you know, that persecution was also of native peoples, indigenous people. Because they were closest. They think. And of course there are still wisdom keepers that have carried that thread of understanding through often in secret often. So it’s like, this was something that kind of happened all over the world.

Is dowsing like a European term? Like it’s like a term that came later or? Well, I guess what I’m saying is we’ve always doused. What I’m getting from what you’re saying is we’ve always doused. We might’ve had different names for it. Correct. Yeah. And, um, and so, and what I remember at the time when you were sharing that story too, is one of the things about putting it under like, oh, water, like finding water, um, was that also.

the use of tools because gosh, I mean, I’m just thinking of a story that I heard from a nurse in the Philippines who she watched a local wise woman, a healer dowse. She didn’t call it dowsing, but to figure out what was what was happening in a patient’s body. Like she

lit a candle, dripped the wax into water and how the wax hardened told her where in the body the issue was. And so it’s like, anyway, I’m just. Yeah. Any of it is. But basically the term dowsing, the actual term came from that old picture that you see of the dowser with the what we call the Y Rod. It’s one that comes together like this.

And they, this is two sticks, you know, basically you go up and off of an apple tree and you’re walking around and holding this branch, you know, on two ends of it when where the branch comes together and is connected to the tree and you’re holding it like this. And when the branch or when you walked over a water vein that would pull down. So it doused, it went down, it doused. And that’s how the name came about is the actual use of the Y rod.

Charisse Sisou (33:24.856)

that tool, the tool created the look of it goes down, it doused, it went down.

Charisse Sisou (33:36.462)

Yes, like doused in water, doused. Okay, I’m kind of getting some of the linguistic stuff. That’s okay. That’s really cool. But the terminology, I mean, it changed, as you said, changes throughout the centuries as to what they were. I mean, you know, you have the Oracle Delphi. We now know that the Oracle Delphi was a person that sat on the crossing of two ley lines, because we can dowse for it. We now understand where that person was getting their

getting the information from, she was sitting right over the cross. So she was getting, if you want to think of it this way, she was sitting at the heart. So you have the arteries coming up, arteries going down, which meet at the heart. So she was getting all the information from the feet and the head, because she was sitting at the heart. When they built the building around where the oracle seat was, where the oracle was sitting,

on this cross thing, because they wanted to build a beautiful building here. So they built, the Greeks built this gorgeous building. What they did was they stopped the lay lines. And then the oracle didn’t work anymore, because the oracle wasn’t getting the information anymore. No kidding. No kidding. So that’s why the, you know, the oracles then stopped having the ability to be hitting, which you would call hitting the mark every time.

So when the King went to the Oracle and said, you know, how many men do I need to defeat blah, blah, blah. And the Oracle says, so, you know, a thousand, well, guy needed 10 ,000 cause she didn’t get the numbers right because she wasn’t getting the rain from him. It was filtered or stopped up a little. Yes, because she got stuck inside of a building. Wow. They built this huge building around it. And I don’t remember what the material was, the rock was, but it,

certainly was impeding the lay line. So I mean, you can and it’s the same thing with a human body when a healer looks at it, where are the blockages? Where is the information not getting through? What’s blocking it here? And then they open the block and people are like, Oh, I don’t have that pain anymore. Oh, I feel so much better. Yeah. But they’re using dowsing. You’re building the building. Right.

Charisse Sisou (36:01.806)

Yeah, they didn’t know to do that. No. And then you also have, you know, there’s many forms of dowsing. Yes, there are tools, but you know, you also have hands on healing. So you have a person that will just run their hands over a person’s aura, and can feel where blockages are, or can feel what’s going on in the body. I mean, you have people like yourself who are body dowsers, your body reacts, your body’s being

pulled towards something good, pushed away from something that’s bad. There’s also finger dowsing, using your fingers to, if it’s a true statement, you can do the pull, you won’t be able to pull So like what people will call muscle testing? Yeah, there’s muscle testing. How many holistic practitioners are now using muscle dowsing? Is this?

is this medication or this herb going to be good for me? You know, and they hold out their arm and they’re testing it. That’s dowsing. That’s dowsing and using it. Yeah, the more and more that I learned about it, the more I was like, oh, people are dowsing all the time, but they don’t necessarily know or connect it with the word dowsing. That term. Yeah. Completely, completely. For most,

Most people, if I mentioned to it, it conjures up the forked stick and the guy looking for water, right? Which to your point became almost like a cover story to protect during that time, like during that time of persecutions and stuff, it was like, okay, let’s go underground and put it in a way that’s a little bit more palatable or digestible by the powers Well, it wasn’t fearful.

Yeah, more careful. That’s fearful. Yeah. I mean, you don’t want to scare somebody you just met by saying, hey, you want me to, want me to tell you why you’re limping? Cause I can dowse for it, don’t you? And they’re like, I just met you. You’re weird. You know? Well, and the other thing too, that I think is really interesting is,

Charisse Sisou (38:22.604)

Dowsing is like, it’s not, it’s not meant to be just like the oracle sitting on the ley lines is giving you the answers. It’s like, this is something that we can all do for ourselves. Right. And remember everybody did used to do it. Everybody did it. Yeah. Yeah. Because you were all one organism in that worldview and everybody did it.

Everybody did it. So, you know, you sensed when there was danger. I mean, how many, one of the things I tell people when they talk about dowsing, I talk about dowsing and they’re going, well, you know, I don’t dowse. And I’m like, well, wait a minute. Have you ever walked into a place you’ve never been there before? It looks like a nice place.

There’s nobody coming after you with anything. There’s nobody arguing. There’s nothing fearful about it. And you just know you’ve got a gut feeling that you don’t belong here and you need to leave. That’s dowsing. That is that sense of knowing where you’re connected to source, your angels, your guides, whatever. And they’re telling you get out now.

Something’s gonna, something bad is here for you. Get out. You don’t belong here. Right. Or conversely, like walking into something or participating in something and suddenly you feel this thrill through your body or something. I’m home, I’m home, I’m home. Yeah. Yeah, same thing. It’s like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. More of this please. Yeah. Yeah. Powerful. And that’s that, that’s that sense that we’re, that we’re trying to develop with.

teaching dowsing, teaching or having conventions. It’s for people to develop their own personal way of dowsing to be able to access this information. And it’s so important. Yeah, it feels like, it really just feels like one of the most important, if not the most important tool that you need to have in your toolbox right now. And it’s not even a tool in a toolbox. It’s really just,

Charisse Sisou (40:43.054)

your point connecting with just going back to that interconnected state, remembering that. And because that’s where that wisdom is, that’s where that guidance is. Like, yeah, well, what I was going to ask is kind of like walk us from that, you know, that dowsing rod, that labyrinth experience through now you’re the head of the

president of ASD, the American Society of Dancers. What I wanted to ask is like, tell me a little bit about ASD.

uh history wise? Yeah or whatever it like or your journey into it you know like how did you like how did you go from that first you know uh groundbreaking experience holding the dowsing rods like what was your journey uh to like getting involved with ASD and where you are now?

Well, first of all, ASD is a 63 year old organization now. It’s a nonprofit volunteer organization. And the purpose is to teach dowsing and to promote dowsing and to do research on dowsing so that we can learn more about this ability that every human being has and the possibility of being awesome at. And so that.

that the organization was started by a group of retired FBI, CIA intelligence officers that actually knew and felt that they had experience with that there is information known, but it’s not in the normal channels. And so they wanted to explore it. So they got together to explore this with.

Charisse Sisou (42:40.43)

farmers and other people that were experimenting with this stuff or knew these things, you know, they used them in their own, do you want to call it wisdom coming through their families. And it grew from there. My entry into it was that Spirit of Change retreat. And I spent two years with a teacher, her name was Terry Fedro.

And she was awesome, absolutely meticulously awesome. And what I could honestly say is she taught the art of the question. So it comes down to in dowsing is if your question is good, you will get a good answer. If your question is fantastic, precise, and to the point, you will get an answer that is fantastic, precise, and to the point. So that was…

That was her biggest strength. And one of the things that then I learned about the American Society of Dowsers and went to my first convention and I was like, oh my God, look at all the things you can do with this. Like people were talking about all kinds of stuff, even moving rocks, like talking to how, you know, how do you build Stonehenge? Well, there’s many different theories of how do you build Stonehenge? But, um,

there was a wonderful druid that had come to that first one and Ivan Macbeth was his name and he used dowsing to talk to the rocks and the lot and he said the rocks made themselves lighter so we could pick them up. Literally. Whoa. Yeah. Oh, I just got chills. Yeah. It’s just like, okay. So, you know, through, through that connection, could the pyramids have been built?

because some of these phenomenal things that we look at now in our world, like the serpent mounds, that you don’t even know it’s a serpent shape or picture unless you’re coming from the sky. Like, how is that built? How would you build that? I mean, it’s just an incredible thing. So, you know, here we go. And then I started going to every convention.

Charisse Sisou (45:07.598)

or, you know, the next year, okay, that’s my vacation, I’m going there. And then I met Joanne Van Gelder, who was researching the labyrinths and working with rooms. And I met so many other people. And then I got asked to be on convention committee. And then I ended up getting on some other committee and some other committee and some other committee. And then I ended up getting on the board. And I’ve been on the board. And then through circumstance, I ended up

because I was vice president, I ended up as president. So here we are. Now we’re going to, you know, changing again because our new conference venue this year is the first time that the conference is ever going to be, was ever held in a conference center. So this is a whole new thing. That’s cool. It is cool. It’s very cool. So, no, it’s a, it’s constantly learning.

Constantly meeting new people that have done different things with dowsing than you ever thought you could do. And learning all these new things and learning more about yourself. It’s a big self -empowering journey. It really is. Dowsing is a lot about self -intersection and self -healing, self -knowing. So yes, you know what I’m gonna call the little eyes.

self, but when you then connect through dowsing to the greater all or source for all that is or God or goddess or whatever you want to call it. It’s, it’s a mind blowing experience, but it happens through the technique of dowsing.

Oh, wow. That’s good. That’s really good. Oh, yeah. And then the journey’s not over. We’re waiting for like, what’s next around the corner. Yeah. And it’s like just the beginning. Like, OK, now we’ve got some tools. We’ve got some ways to communicate to. Oh, my gosh. Would you? Well, you mentioned Joanne Gelder. Would you speak a little bit about that relationship?

Charisse Sisou (47:27.598)

between or a little bit about runes and labyrinths, because I know this is such a beautiful part of your work. Okay, so we’re going to go back again to our ancient history. And so.

If you recognize that every, that you’re part of everything, you also recognize that each thing is also an individual. Like I spoke about a couple of seconds ago, the individual and then the individual’s part of everything. So you have the, I’m going to call it the small I, and then you have the big I. So, and you go back and forth between those things. And, um, Greg Braden called, called it walking between the worlds.

You’re walking between this world and this world of knowing a sense of knowing. So back then they recognize that you, Sharice, has a different energy than me, Sandi, than my cup or my dog or that tree over there or that rock. And that rock is a different energy than that rock.

And everybody knows this because they’ve been in gem and crystal shops and you’re drawn to a certain rock or a certain color of rock. And then when you’re looking at all those rocks, you see one that just like speaks to you and you’ve got to have that one. Okay. Because it’s speaking to you. You want that energy. You recognize it something you need. Okay. Yes. Now, if I was going to talk to you about it, I would say, okay.

that rock has the energy of, let’s just say love, because it’s easy, it’s pink quartz. It carries the energy of love. So how do you symbolize the energy of love? What do we do? A heart. A little heart, right? Oh my God. Yeah. You see a heart? Look at that. You see a heart? Thank you, Zoom. You get love. Yeah. You don’t have to.

Charisse Sisou (49:44.494)

Thank you, Zoom. Okay, but you get love and you understand the vibration of love. So runes are just a symbol of a vibration or a frequency. Got it. This frequency is now symbolized in the heart. Okay, so when you see the heart, you feel that vibration. You feel that energy. You know that energy. You connect to that energy.

that make sense now? Yes, these are just and they’re ancient. They you know, those symbols have come down through the ages. Also, you know, this symbol means strength. This symbol means journey. This symbol means growth. This symbol means because they these were all vibratory frequencies that everybody could kind of agree on that they this is what it means. This is the heart. It means this love. It’s a symbol.

for that energy, wherever it is, that’s the symbol of it. And we could agree on it, they just became runes. So if you take a labyrinth, which has, and I’m just gonna use it this way. If you take a labyrinth, which has seven circuits or seven pathways, we’re gonna use the oldest one, which is a seven circuit labyrinth, it has seven pathways. Okay, they relate to your seven chakras, the biggest ones.

Um, it also, if you’re going to put it that way, then you also have the seven colors of the chakras, right? So the labyrinth has the color, the chakra has the number of the chakra. It also has a vibratory frequency for each one of those pathways or a tone, a sound. Okay. And you, you then can say, okay, this is a sound machine. Okay. There goes the fun again. You’re going to have to pause.

Yeah, right? That was really cool. Heart, heart, heart, heart, That was cool. There it goes.

Charisse Sisou (51:59.502)

See AI has some function.

Charisse Sisou (52:05.262)

I like that one. I know, right? I like that one. So I don’t, I just, the only time is like when sometimes it’ll think I’m doing a thumbs down and it’ll go like, and it’ll do like a little thumbs down. I’m like, that’s not what I meant. Anyway. Okay. So tell me. Yeah. So you were talking about, okay. And so now, yeah. Energy sounds. Yeah. Right. So you combine all that in a labyrinth. You’ve also connected the connect. We also have the connection between.

source and earth, okay, through you. Now you add a room. So let’s just say I want love, okay? I’m gonna put those little hearts, where would be the best place to place that room heart, okay, in the labyrinth? I would use my dowsing to make the placement. And then people walking through the labyrinth,

would get that love vibratory frequency amplified.

and bathe in it. So now you’re going to bathe your whole body in that frequency because you’re in the slobbering. So it’s kind of almost like an ancient radionics piece of equipment or a singing bowl was another way of looking at it. Right. It’s a singing bowl. You’ve put a witness in the center of it. So now it is sending out that love frequency. And not only is it sending it out to you, but it’s also sending it out on the way lines.

Isn’t that a cool thing? Yes. Right. So you can actually. Yeah. Right. It’s sending it out just like a radio frequency. You’re listening to somebody’s music on, you know, the radio or on your iPad or wherever you’re hearing that frequency. Well, now you’re being bathed in it and you’re also sending it out. That’s amazing. So it’s like this. What you were just describing, it’s like this layer cake of, um,

Charisse Sisou (54:17.07)

and you know, resonant energetic signatures. For example, this, this one of like, let’s say we’re changing the seven levels, the seven chakras, and then just infusing all of that with say the energy of love. Wow. Love. Yeah. Yeah. So you’re basically, you’re a big, huge radio tower sending out love to the world. Yeah. Through the labyrinth.

So it’s like when you bring in say runes or even, you know, it’s so interesting because as you’re saying this, it could be runes, but it could also be crystals. It could be, you know, what is carrying that vibration? I think runes are particularly interesting. Is that it’s like, it’s like an amplification focusing. Is that all? It’s an amplification. Yep. Yep.

And then when you talk about a runic labyrinth, which is what Joanne van Gelder did, she saw or was given when she was on a labyrinth tour in England, she saw the runes being placed in the labyrinths. And then she got a hundred dowsers to dowse as to where each of those runes would be used or placed for the highest and best good of everyone who would walk the labyrinth.

And that’s how the runic labyrinth was born. And she did that. She gathered all that information and created the runic labyrinth. And then we did the double runic labyrinth at Lindenville. I think that was like one of the last years. We put two labyrinths face to face that had the runes in them. And that was an amazing experience.

How do you get in it? I’m just trying to picture it. You know how like normally you have an entrance. Right. So you have your two These are two labors. Here’s the entrance and here’s the entrance. So face to face would mean entrance to entrance like this, but there’s a space in between. So now there’s figure eight around your two hands. Yep. Crossing right about, you know, there’s a space in the middle. So now you’ve added the infinity energy.

Charisse Sisou (56:39.47)

And you’ve also added a vortex center between the two. Wow. Along with all these other energies. Oh my gosh. But the coolest thing about this is that different. Okay. So radionics is also the same kind of thing. The radionics people are using a machine to transmit a vibratory frequency that they have found. Drew Dowsing.

I mean, they’re using dowsing to find the correct frequency. And they’re transmitting that frequency for healing or for any other purpose that they’re doing this for. Like Marty Lucas, who like was hired by a fishery because birds flocks of birds flying over the fishery were going down and eating up all with the fish because fish give off a frequency of fish.

Well, now you got a pool of them and the fish can’t get away because there’s no stream. And the birds were coming in having dinner. And then of course the fishery was losing all their product. Oh my goodness. So what Marty did was he came up with a frequency that masked the fish frequency and used his radionic equipment to mask all the pools. So when the birds flew over, there were no fish there because they couldn’t sense the fish.

The frequency of fish was gone and they didn’t recognize fish. That is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So now, yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Yes. This is so cool. I mean, Marty too. So I’m excited. Yeah. Yes. So they, so the frequency, the radionics frequency can only goes out at a certain level. It doesn’t change it. The, the,

The beauty of the machine is that that frequency goes out at the same amount of amperage forever until the machine dies, unless you turn the machine off, okay? With a runic labyrinth, the person walking it is only going to get the amount of energy that they need at that time for their highest and best good.

Charisse Sisou (58:57.262)

So it can’t overload you. It can’t give you something you don’t need. So in that way, the labyrinth again, and this way of doing it is intrinsic to the human, okay, but the human aliveness, if you want to call it that way, of anything, even if it’s a dog or a cat or a kid or a bird or whatever have you.

they can only get the amount of energy from that thing that they need at that time. It may be different at a different time, but they can only get what they need because that’s the way they’re programmed. That’s amazing. So the band and the labyrinth source, and again, that all connection is working together.

Wow. It’s not something outside of self. Exactly. That is giving you. Well, and I think it’s so key. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. It’s very key to it’s kind of mind blowing that if you just allow the earth and source your guidance, allow them not your conscious mind.

but your connection and your spirit to help you heal. You give it direction. You give what you want to do and allow it to help you through these things as a combined, unified way of dealing with issues and problems. Not as a, I’m going to tell you what to do. Exactly. Right. Well, I think,

I think this is exactly it. And I mean, you just helped to answer a question for me. It reminds me of, you know, like where, how, why wouldn’t it work to just have a machine kind of like sending this vibration out? And to your point, it’s like what happens when you have the human body, it does work great. And when you have the human body that’s communicating with the labyrinth, the runes, all that, like that,

Charisse Sisou (01:01:18.734)

You know, that all that is in and collaboration is why, you know, because it’s like what works for one person won’t work for another person. We’re all correct. Exactly. That’s why you have dowsers that use, you have dowsers that use pendulums. You have dowsers that use, you know, L rods and you use your body. Right. You have dowsers that use nothing wrong. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. But you know, but the other part of it is too, that you just realize, you know, that each thing has its place and its part to play, like a play. Agreed. So there is no way that we could keep that frequency over those fish ponds without that machine, because you would never know when they’re going to come across and you’re going to never know what kind of bird they are. So that works great there.

But if you’re going to deal with an individual and you’re going to deal with the actual land and the animals and everything and the spirits and everything else. Well, you know what, there’s such things as, you know, I’m tired today or it’s nighttime or it’s, you know, all of my energy is over here because, you know, there’s something over there going on. You don’t have that same amount of amperage every minute of every day. That’s why the machine does. It’s just, you know,

and does a really great job for what it does. And the labyrinths do it a different way. They both work, they both have their places. Oh, totally. Yeah, I mean, they both do. They work great together. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Because one can do what the other can’t. Yeah, right? It’s like complimentary, you know,

idea.

Charisse Sisou (01:03:20.206)

all these different pieces of the medicine, even like humans, like we each have a different piece of the medicine and we’re coming in with it. Oh, I have so enjoyed this conversation. Is there any last pearl of wisdom, you know, if there’s, or if there’s that one thing that you would love for people to remember from our talk today? Yeah, what would that be?

Charisse Sisou (01:03:50.126)

Learn to dowse because when you learn to dowse and you feel that connection, you feel connection. It’s your connection. And that connection can help you through life in a more fulfilling way, a happier way than anybody outside saying,

You need to do this. You have to do this. You have to be this. You can’t be this. You can’t do that. You can only do this. Use the dowsing to find truth. Your truth, not somebody else’s truth.

I love that. I love that.

That’s what it’s about. It is what it’s about. It’s like connecting, connecting with ourselves, right? Knowing what our truth is, which comes from our greater. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. It comes from source of love. First of all, creation. That’s why we’re here. Yeah. Beautiful. Oh, thank you so much, Sandi. I really appreciate it.

appreciated our time together. Beautiful. Thank you very much for all the help. Sure. Sure. All right, I’m going to stop the recording.

Charisse Sisou (01:05:21.166)

Bye.

Thanks for joining me on Wise Body, Ancient Soul. I hope it reminds you how magical and powerful you truly are. Kindly subscribe, rate, and review this podcast so more juicy light bringers like you can hear these transmissions. And if you’re looking to connect more deeply with your body and soul’s wisdom, visit CharisseSisou.com to learn how else we can play together. Here’s to your joy and wild success! From my heart to yours, I love you. Take what you need and pass it on.