Into the Hush with Master Map Dowser Leroy Bull

Please note: these time signatures aren’t quite accurate, since they were generated before editing… but they’ll point you in the right direction!

00:00 Introduction and Background

00:47 Early Experiences with Dowsing

03:10 Unusual Finds

05:02 The Role of Intuition and Permission Giving

06:04 The Influence of Grandfather

07:03 Permission Giving and Trusting Intuition

08:18 Connection with Nature and Native Wisdom

09:47 Dowsing as a Natural Ability

10:41 The Concept of ‘The Hush’

12:23 Cherokee Name and Connection to Native Wisdom

17:53 Introduction to Guides

19:49 Permanent Guides

22:44 Assisting Environmental Sensitives

24:27 Experience as President of ASD

25:09 Meeting Betsy and Conference Connections

27:05 Map Dowsing and Writing a Book

27:40 Using the Mind Mirror Machine for Dowsing

31:23 Proving Hemispheric Communication in the Brain

33:46 Dowsing, Map Dowsing, and Remote Viewing

35:42 Seeking and Finding Beyond Water with Dowsing

36:31 The Influence of Science in Dowsing

37:49 Dowsing for Wells with Leroy’s Daughter

38:47 The Power of Intention in Dowsing

42:55 The Shift from Religion to Spirituality

45:04 Tuning into Natural and Spiritual Sources

47:58 Observing Signs and Trusting the Universe

52:46 Tapping into Father Sky, Mother Earth, and Spirit

53:53 The Impact of Intent and Free Will

56:19 Communicating with Loved Ones on the Other Side

The transcript is created prior to editing, so time stamps (if included) may be less than accurate, and it may include bonus material…!

Ready to have a deeper conversation about body and soul, sacred leadership, and our collective evolution? Welcome to the Wise Body, Ancient Soul podcast with me, your host, Charisse Sisou.

So well, as someone with 68 years of dowsing, under your belt, take us back to the beginning. Like, how did it all?

start, how did you get started dowsing? I read Eisenhower’s memoirs and Eisenhower talks about dowsing in World War II. He in fact had crews of soldiers who guarded dowsers who were trying to find water after the Germans had pretty much covered it with oil and all kinds of things in order to

get rid of the Americans and British and so forth. My grandfather was a dairy farmer in Northern New York State, Watertown, up in the snowbelt. One Easter he lined five or six of us cousins up and handed us all forked sticks and said, this is how you hold it and this is what you do when you walk straight ahead slowly. And mine went down so fast, I thought it was gonna hit my foot.

And he said, yes. And he said, well, if you can work this into your life, it could be very handy for you during your life. My father could do it, but he was exceedingly high up in Pennsylvania government and two different bosses told him he couldn’t do it for money while he was in their cabinets.

They didn’t want the Harrisburg Patriot News in 1960 to find out that the State Secretary of Agriculture for Pennsylvania walks around with a forked stick in his hand. It wouldn’t even make the comic strip today, but then it would have been very interesting. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Since then, I’ve done 3,300 water wells on four different continents.

And I’ve been to Japan 12 times to find time capsules buried by grade school kids. In 12 trips to Japan, I found 13 time capsules. Oh my gosh. I want to ask like what, well, what are the four continents? I’m curious. Well, of course, the Americas and Japan and England. And there’s one more if I can think of what it is. Well.

North America, South America too? Yes, America. Yeah. Asia and Europe, wow. Yep. What was the, this is going off script, but what was the weirdest thing that you’ve ever found? Yeah. That’s a good question. To me, the example I usually give is a well-driller friend of mine had a job to do

And when he was there, the people in the house asked, there’s something wrong with their guest area, which used to have a mother-in-law, and then it was empty for years. They went into it expecting grandkids to come back, and it smelled like sewage. And the weld driller said to call me. So I drove out to their place and marked where there’s a hole in the pipe, basically underneath the toilet.

So they had the plumber come and take the toilet out. And then they jackhammered the cement in order to get down. And when they built the place, they brought a poly pipe over from the toilet and an iron pipe over from bathtub. And they just slid them together. They didn’t hook them in together in any way. So.

She calls me up and says, what do I do now? I said, you go to Agway and you buy 50 pounds of lime and you throw it in there and you cement it over and forget it, because that’s all you can do. That was pretty weird. So your weirdest find was bad plumbing. Yeah, yeah. Most unusual. That’s fascinating. Well, you said,

You know, in your story about with your grandfather, it almost sounded like he had a little bit of like a prescience, you know, like knowing that this would be something big in your life. Do you think? Did he, was he a bit of a sensitive or an intuitive himself? Well, he was a good farmer. And of course he was in contact with the universe, Mother Earth and Father Sky. And yeah, on that level,

He was a permission giver too. The power went off and we milked 50 cows by hand and I was 11 years old and he hands me the key to the truck. The hired, he and the hired man put the milk cans on the truck and I was supposed to drive it down into Watertown to the dairy. I was 11 years old. How did you reach the pedals? Telephone books. You’re exactly right.

So, half the, of about 10 kids there that day, half of them could get a response very quickly and almost right away. Another quarter could get it if he kind of coached them more and held on to them and things like that. And my own brother never got it. So he says,

He couldn’t find water with a wire rod if he was standing in it at the edge of the ocean. That’s great. He had some pretty good teachers. Yeah, no kidding.

Tell me more about what you meant by permission giver. He was careful to teach you how to work on the farm and observed as to whether or not you knew how to drive a truck, even if you were a pipsqueak.

It was easy for him to tell you to go ahead and do something that you’d never done before. All you had ever done is watch that happen. That’s a permission giver as far as I’m concerned.

He was easy as a good farmer, meaning he was at one-ment and at peace with his grounds and his life. And he felt the easy vibration when he told you or asked you to do something or other. And if it didn’t vibe right from the person receiving it, then he had somebody else do it.

that’s really well put because it, so he allowed you really to say, am I ready? Can I drive this dairy truck down to with the telephone books and let that kind of guide that decision? Well, and I think I love the context that you’re talking about it because, you know, I think

I think dowsing seems really mysterious to a lot of people when it’s really not so mysterious. It’s just we’ve forgotten how to be at-one-ment, you know, or we’ve been told not to trust that for whatever reason. So I love how you talk. My people as well, like my mother, my grandparents on both sides, they were all farmers. So very, very closely connected with the earth.

Yes. Well, the Native Americans say those things that stand vertically on the earth are the go-betweens between Father Sky and Mother Earth. So two things stand vertically, trees and us. We are the conduits through which energy can flow from one to the other or come down and be utilized for whatever purpose it’s needed. Co-create, in other words. That’s…

That’s perfect. I remember the moment that I saw that it was midwinter and you know how the trees here in the Midwest, trees are bare of leaves by that point. And I just really saw the branches going up in the sky and thought of the roots going down and it was like, oh, circulatory system, nervous system, like connection, you know, above and below. That’s fantastic. Well, I love that you mentioned this connection with Native wisdom because…

Too, I feel that dowsing is another name for something that farmers, something that native folks, indigenous people are kind of already tapped into. They commonly call it peering over the horizon. That’s what most native tribes would call it.

That’s beautiful. And I think in one of the articles in the Outside article, they talked about you kind of tapping the hush. Is that like the same? It was a beautiful article. Yeah. The writer did a very fine job. He really only made a couple of little teeny mistakes. That’s not much when you consider what they have to go through. And he wrote a nice big article. I was surprised to see ASD stuck it on the website as a reference.

Um, the hush is…

I would rather sit under a pine tree than watch a baseball game.

And people notice that when we’re driving down the road or something, it is easy. It is almost automatic for me to feel the eyes of something like a deer or a bear. And I look over there and there it is. So that’s part of the hush is the frequency contact between us and anything else.

Hmm

that well, and that allows that connection to happen. You’re actually, your story is reminding me of a story very quickly. A native man was being interviewed about how he hunts and he actually only takes one bullet with him. And he just asks for the animal to offer itself up. And it just reminds me of that. It’s like, he sends that frequency that.

by energetic signature out and the one with the matching energetic signature comes forward and says, here I am, you know, wow, that’s beautiful. I noticed on the inside cover of your book, which I do not have yet, but now I really want it. But on the inside cover, it says, there’s a Cherokee name. Is that your Cherokee name? Tell me more about that. How

Two eagles. Yeah, it means two eagles. I’ll let you pronounce it because… Oh, I don’t have it in front of me and I don’t know how to pronounce it that way. Owah-hah-lee. Okay. This is a story. A fella called me from California and he wanted to come east and he was wondering where it might be advantageous for him to settle and start a business or whatever. And so I map dowsed it for him.

and send it to him and he set up a time to come east. On his way east in Illinois or some place like that, he stopped in a health food store and bought his lunch and my card then from Pennsylvania was pinned to the cork board in the foyer. He called me from the health food store and

needed some information and on the way out of the store, he runs into a Native American Cherokee grandmother and they got to talking and they both were going east. The Cherokee grandmother was headed to close up one of their shops, so to speak, in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. And we got a call from her and we asked her,

Okay, you just blew into town and you’re closing down a shop. What are you going to do now? Meaning you want to come out for supper, which wasn’t far from where she was. She stayed six months and she taught us the Cherokee way. Yes. And she imbued my wife with a pipe carrier and a storyteller. So I still have the pipe today.

and the native peoples tell me if I, I have the rights to it if I choose to take it up. And I haven’t decided yet. Wow. Yes, we used to do pipe ceremony. We did one in a state park in Pennsylvania one time. And I don’t know, over a thousand spirits showed up because pipe ceremony hadn’t been done in that area for heaven knows how long.

Yes. She’s smoking the pipe and doing the prayer, so to speak, and I’m watching these spirits coming in and they just keep coming and coming and coming and coming. Holy mackerel. Wow. I have had that. First of all, what a great honor and gift. And it, wow. And that she

Oh my goodness, I’m just unpacking that. I’m reminded because there was a time when we did a ceremony in the woods, not far from, in Maine, and very similar. It was like all these spirits gathered. I am.

I don’t see them, I’ll feel them. And the message that Rosanne got was they are so happy. And it was that very same thing because it had been so many years since they’d heard those words and heard those prayers in the woods. And it was just, and I was very sacred and just such an honor to be in that. So thank you for taking us into that hush. It’s really beautiful.

So is she the one who gave you that name? Yes. Wow. Yep.

I had a, I’ll call it a dream. And what the dream was in picture was two eagle heads split looking opposite directions. And when I, her name was Donawa Kelly. And when I asked Donawa Kelly what the dream meant, she said, you are given one eagle for your work here on earth and the other eagle for your work in the sky.

Hmm. Yeah. Very nice.

She’s passed over, but then that happens to all of us. Absolutely. And she’s with you. She wanted to be here today because that’s just the fact that this came up. My own guides were like, oh, ask him about this. There’s a good story there. I think it says it really speaks to your

connection. And it feels like, and you know, again, this is just from the stories that I was reading. And it feels like some of that connection even predates that moment when you were 12. And your grandfather handed you the Y stick. So you talked a little bit about your guides and how you had, you know, tell me, well, tell me more about them if you if you would like.

and I’ll put a precursor on it. Yeah. I was asked to speak to the New Jersey Parapsychological Society some years ago and there was like 10 of those big long foldable tables full of people eating and it was then I was supposed to speak and while we were still eating I hear a squeak on the floor behind me and a woman came flying down the aisle between the tables

and she literally squeaked her sneakers to stop. And she looks over at me and says, you’re Leroy Bull, you’re the one who’s supposed to speak today, right? And I said, right. And she said, you’ve been down here six other times to learn it as good as you finally learned it. And then she went squeaking on down my aisle and I never even got her name. I mean, it was easy to look up, but.

So six times– it was a drive-by message!– Yes, exactly. Oh dear. Now I know you, I lost it after that one, which question was it? So I was asking about, because I was reminded, you know, how now that she’s passed over, she now is one of your guides, this beautiful Cherokee elder that came to you.

And you mentioned in one of the articles that I read that you have three guides. And I wanted to know more about them, if you’d be willing, who or what they are and when you first met them. I have permission to do so, so we’re gonna do it. My wife and I had a preceptor, a teacher in Pennsylvania, and she…

taught us much more about meditating and guided tours and all of that kind of stuff.

She introduced me to three guides, who are what I will call permanent guides. Others come and go, but these are there unless they’re really on another assignment. The first one is running deer. Running deer is a white deer, and is more or less in charge of those things that have to do with, I’ll say, mother nature.

The next one is Lisa. Lisa has to do with those things that have to do with the heart. And the last one is the head honcho, Big Green Bean, and his name is…

Walt and he was the preceptor person that I told you about said he is the third wand of peace, the angel of death. That takes most of us back a step or two, but he’s very high up in the chain.

There’s a lot of peanuts down underneath him. And if things get too serious, I will call any or all of them. And I do it somewhat according to the things that they get into the most. Um, if I want as much power as I can put into something, um, bring it down. I will do it with the head honcho.

Wow. So you have a really powerful group of guides and you we’re so in tune. Because my next question was like, do they come, you know, are they permanent guides? Do they come and go? And you, you literally answered that question. So these were actually guides that came in later, right? Or not necessarily came in, but you were introduced to them. Had they been your guides all along or that was the. The answer is yes.

Yeah. What I just did was if I need a yes or no answer and I don’t have a tool, then I put here is zero and here is a hundred and I run my finger up to whatever percentage it is. And I get a light streak across the chart at that point. So I can answer people’s questions fairly quickly. Yeah. Yeah, it’s nice. That is nice.

I have half a dozen people who I’m going to call them environmental sensitives. And yeah, you know this part too. Okay. Oh, I’m getting chills in my body. Good. Those folks can be in a real trouble. For example, one called me one time and she had something about her teeth and.

She went into the dentist and she was going to need some work and she had him write down the chemicals that he would use. And she made another appointment and she called me in the meantime and asked, are any of those three or four chemicals going to kill me? She could go into anaphylactic shock if any of them dowsed as negative. And that’s just an example of some of the things I commonly go through.

And of course, I don’t fiddle with their prescriptions, that’s illegal, but their other things, supplements, I’ll call them, can be moved around.

Mm-hmm. So she actually consulted with you to dowse on that. Are these safe for me to take? Yep. Interesting. How does that connect in with the environmental sensitives? Is it that she is an environmental sensitive or? Yep. I have three or four or five of them and it’s nothing for them to call me. at at eight o’clock at night

a heck of a lot of people know me because I was a president (of ASD), including Betsy, who you met this morning. Betsy’s known me for a decade.

She attended my talks, she has attended my wife’s talks and so forth over many years. So she said it this way when she saw me sitting on a bench in the hall at the conference at the last convention, she said, I’ve got time right now and it would be all right to sit down beside me. Conference love connection. Yes.

That’s kind of us. You want me to tell you that one? It’s kind of cute. Yeah, of course. Was sitting on a bench in the hall waiting for an appointment, probably for a massage or whatever. And I had a fellow sitting right beside me who I’ve known for like 40 years. And around the corner from the demonstration area comes this woman. And I looked at her and she had

a clear aura, easily defined, and it was all full of little teeny sprinkles, silver sprinkles. And I bumped the guy beside me in the rib and I said, hey, she’s cute and she’s got sprinkles in her aura. And he looks over and says, she is cute and she’s got sprinkles in her aura. As they would say, the rest is history.

exactly the kind of conversation that goes down at conference. I remember one woman stopped by my table and she was like, she’s an angel, isn’t she? And I was like, you’re getting that too, right? She’s like, no, really like an angel, angel. And it’s exactly the kind of conversation. It’s what I enjoy so much about conferences. We can just kind of be ourselves and

You’re in a group of like-minded people. It’s very nice. Yeah, it’s a real gift. It’s a real gift. Well, tell us about, you mentioned this earlier, and my guides are reminding me, like, talk about this. You mentioned map dowsing, right? So tell us, give us a vignette. What is map dowsing? As they say, I wrote the book because my book is used on four continents. And

ASD’s bookstore person at the time said, look, you’ve been teaching this for 25 years. Next time you get a little time in your life, then you take your notes and you turn it into a book. And she was very specific. She said, I want a book that lays flat like ring bound, because if it’s a bound book, it’ll try to close up. She says, I want maps in it for them to practice after they’ve read your book and so forth.

So, and so it came to pass. That is great.

My science officer discovered that as usual, the government was throwing money at something in order to make it better. So they were throwing money at the largest mind mirror machine in the world, which was installed in Sedona. And he asked the board of trustees whether we could rent a little time on it and try out a theory about dowsing, mechanically.

We said yes, and he went there and they said, look, we just got it going and we estimate it’ll be two years till we prove or disprove what Congress wants. And he went back two years later and bought an hour. And they wanted to read the prospectus of what it was we wanted to prove or disprove. And the prospectus was that if you

get into at- one-ment far enough, you’re probably a dowser or a psychic or a martial arts person or somebody who is that far in. And we said in the prospectus that these people, not just dowsers, have cooperation across the corpus callosum, two sides of the brain. And that’s why they are so able to

retrieve information. So it came to pass. We got it done. And in seven, seven frequencies, it would do seven frequencies needles at one time in living color. And before Walter Woods, who was president at the time sat in the virtual reality chair, they said, you people are crazy. We read your.

prospectus, you’re crazy. And so the prospectus said things like, he’s going to sing, he’s going to pray, he’s going to dowse something, anything, and he’s going to, I can’t remember the last one.

15 minutes into the hour that we bought, the scientists are over there behind the glass because they’re trying not to make noise because that stuff shows up on the screen too. They said, they mouthed, you’ve already proved your point in 15 minutes. Good job. So I’ve heard stuff come in over the news.

in the 10 or 15 or 20 years since then, they, the scientific community is catching up to that experiment and it’s taking [time], and it’s okay. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I think it’s, sometimes it is just that timing. And so what they proved was they were able to measure that they’re, that the, both,

hemispheres of the brain were talking to each other? Exactly. It was for them, it was easy to see on the needles wiggling on the charts and the colors coming out of the feeder and all that kind of scientific stuff. Yeah, the scientific stuff. Like, did they have like electrodes all over their head? They must have, yeah, right. Virtual reality helmet, yes. Oh yeah, got it, got it. Sort of common today, but not then of course.

Sure. What was the timeframe of that? Do you remember? Timeframe. Yeah. That would have been 1998, roughly. And in two, there were two articles in the quarterly magazines about it. Yeah. Quite, quite descriptive with charts and everything. So there’s, there’s a lot in the quarterlies.

Yes, there are. There are. Well, and you know, it’s interesting because just to kind of put it in context in terms of the timeframe, you know, so this is like early, early days of the internet. And I just read another article where they talked about how like they did a poll in 2001. It was a Gallup poll. And something like 41% of all people surveyed had some kind of awakening.

experience. The difference between that time and now is they wouldn’t tell anybody about it. Right. You know, because heaven forbid people call them crazy, right? Like just like the reaction that the Dowsers got saying like, this is what we think we’re going to be able to prove with your fancy dancy machine. And, you know, fast forward to now, you can go there are kids on TikTok, videos on YouTube.

talk, sharing all kinds of experiences now. Yeah. I’m not looked at so skeptically anymore. That, you know, they used to cock their head and wiggle their eyeballs when, but, but they had the guts to call me to find them water. So it’s an interesting dichotomy. Now, the map dowsing thing that you talked about is your, in native American terms, you have electrical centers running up your spine. They call them chakras.

and the chakras really are your radio aerial out there in mother nature and they’re pulling in the frequencies. You send that information as you do all information to your medulla oblongata, which is the root section of your brain, and if you can send it from there up to your cortex, then you know what you feel from your environment. Now everybody gets the same treatment. I mean, that’s how it works.

difference between dowsing, map dowsing and remote viewing is only how you sort the information. If you expect to have a piece of paper in front of you and mark down where the lost whatever it is located, fine. If you expect in your mind’s eye to see the field or the building, then you will see the building.

It’s only a matter of how you expect to process the information. Expectations again. Yes. And intent that, oh, that’s such a beautiful definition because I never really connected or saw so clearly, um, how it’s like same, same concept, different perspective or intention or approach. How you sort it.

How you sort the data. My first time for remote viewing was I was asked to mark a well on a field. And I pulled up to the field, the owner wasn’t there yet. And I got out my L rods and I was ready to swing the L rods to see where the well was going to be. And instead the grass was fairly short. I see little gold lines running.

here and there and everywhere. And up in the upper right-hand corner is where two gold lines crossed and it’s going like a computer animation. That’s where the well’s gonna be. That was my first remote viewing. Mother nature taught me. Oh, wow. Wow. That’s amazing. I will, I was, again, you anticipate my question because I was just gonna ask, like, when…

you know, after you had that experience with your grandfather, when did you first realize, which is a slightly different question actually, when did you first realize that you could seek and find something other than water with dowsing? I think I always could find things for people, but it is such a wonderful headset that you are in when you do the searching that you’d like to go back there. It’s very much like

channeling. If you channel properly, it’s it is or dowse properly. It is an energy pickup, not an energy loss. And in fact, if you’re using your energy to cause it to happen, and you can, you’re going to run out of gas after a while.

My daughter, now I’ll tell you the science part that I’m sure was surrounded with. My wife was a biochemist biophysicist out of Penn State. My father was an engineer and she learned how to ask questions. The other person is our daughter who lives in Stanford, Connecticut, is a PhD medical physicist.

I was surrounded by these scientists, but I learned a lot, of course, even willingly. You always use any information that you have for what you’re doing, but the right answer comes through frequencies. You pick up what’s going on and you translate

using yes or no’s usually. And I had my daughter on television with me when she was 10 or 12, she was demonstrating dowsing in a field and I was too and the cameras took the whole thing in.

Now, got time for a fun one? Absolutely. Okay. When she was 16 and old enough to drive my daughter, and if it, there were years when there were droughts and, and I was working 14 to 16 hours a day, six days a week, and if I had too many wells, I would write one on a piece of paper and leave it at the breakfast table for her. She would get in her little old jitney car and drive there. Now.

The anthropomorphization was this. She used her hand as a tool and she waves her hand across the field and when the palm of her hand turns warm, that’s the direction she needs to walk. And then she puts the palm down by her feet and goes up that vector and when it turns warm the second time she’s pointing right where the well is gonna be. Now you see how long that took. So she’d go back to the car and get a stake and hammer.

walk up there pound it in the ground and get in her little jitney car and go home. I’m going to get a call that night from some farmer or somebody who says if you think I’m going to drill for water where that little girl in her little old jitney sports car pounded the stake in I’m not going to drill there. He said and the next thing he said was

I didn’t even get off the porch and she had the job done already and she was walking back to the car. So it took years but I finally figured out the right answer. I would tell them if you drill where she put the stake and you don’t get water, I’ll pay for the drilling.

That puts it on the line right where they’re thinking. Absolutely. No better guarantee than that. Wow. Did you ever have to pay for somebody’s drilling? No. And, and, uh, she worked at Stamford hospital, Stamford Connecticut. She installed the, uh, cyber knife. She, she went to Europe and bought it.

shipped it back and she had the building ready for it to be put in by then. And she ran it for a couple of decades. And the cyber, what is that? Cyber knife. It’s a nuclear beam used to shoot tumors and things. It’s very, very finite. Extremely. She called me one time she’d been at Stamford hospital for, I don’t know, five or six or seven years.

and a young boy was brought in and he had a little lump on his wrist. And of course they biopsied it and it was cancer. And the appointment was set up two appointments. Well, first one was to get tattooed. What that means is they have, they have the, the freckle shop. A guy does, uh, puts three freckles on in the area so that they can line the beam up and if they need to shoot it more than once, they,

they can line it up on the freckles. Well, the young kid, I mean, he was 10 or 12. He was scared to death of the freckle shot, but not of the nuclear beam. So my daughter took him by the hand and took him down to the basement, and the kid was freaking. And she told the freckle man, put freckles on me so he can see. And he did. And you know, it’s just like you’re getting a shot, the tattoo, that’s all.

Yeah. So the kid saw that she was not having trouble with this whole thing and allowed himself to be freckled. Now he was supposed to come back in two or three weeks and get the first treatment with the nuclear beam. He walks into her office and there’s nothing left on his wrist. And she says to me on the telephone, Dad, what happened? Yeah. And I said, I’ve got a book called

Subo therapy, which is acupuncture acupressure. And I went and got the book, talking to her on the phone. She told me as close as she could where they put the freckles on. They tattooed the kid on the mother meridians and they knocked the cancer right off his arm. It was great. My goodness. That is great. Oh, wow. And I love how they just disappeared like, well, no need.

No need any more. She said you couldn’t even see where it was. I mean, there was a lump there before. The chance of that. Fantastic. Yeah, that is fantastic. That is fantastic. Oh my goodness, Leroy. I could talk to you for hours, easily. Yes. Easily. I’m afraid I could talk for hours too. I know. Just try and pry this microphone out of my head.

Be as we, you know, as we, as we come to a close, well, hopefully I’d love to have a chance to interview you again, because I feel like there’s, there’s so much more I want to ask you. Um, and what would be your, um, you know, what would be your piece of advice for say someone who’s new to dowsing? Like they’re brand new. This is the first they’re learning about it. What would you love to impart to them today?

The first thing is to be open and to be willing and accept new information because it is not the usual thing, at least not yet. I’m hoping that the coming age of Aquarius, which we’re really just on the edge of, is the time when people will be tuned in. They will be dowsing. They will be…

going through their life the way it was meant to be. And easily and not stressing and not shooting each other and running at people off the road like all that silly stuff, usually in California. But anyway. Spoken like an East coaster. Yes. Actually, if I may piggyback on that question, because I can feel it.

For some folks who are new to this and they’re looking at like, wow, dowsing this divination tool, what is the difference between, like I have an intuitive sense of this, but how would you articulate the difference between say using your senses, dowsing rods, pendulum versus like a Ouija board or something like that? There’s very little difference as far as I’m concerned. You’re taking in information from elsewhere.

And as far as I’m concerned.

The word divination is a misuse to me, and that is divine. What first you have to decide what’s divine. And if in a lot of people’s milieu, divine means church, and this is not church. This is spiritual. So, uh, it’s, it’s a spiritual journey. It is a shamanic journey.

and not a journey into the church. Right. There is one good thing about people gathering, either whether it’s a dowsing conference or a church or whatever, and that is if you need practice picking up energy, then go to a place where there’s a group of like-minded people doing something. You could pull your car up to the side of the local church.

And when they’re singing in the service, you can not only hear them sing outside, you can feel the intent, the at-one-ment that those people have. They’re all in it together. And another place, the opposite direction would be park your car on the edge of a junkyard. Right. It’s kind of tough. And when I was young and, and getting parts out of junkyards, it wasn’t the

junkyard dog I was most worried about. It was all of the vibe, which feels fairly heavy to me. Sure. When I was, yeah. Oh, I’m sorry. Go ahead. Please. It was 10. My father’s family wound up touring the United States very extensively. And we were outside the Alamo. And at that time there was a.

little teeny tent and a card table and you signed in. There was no charge. We got in the first hall and I almost lost my breakfast and I told the rest of the family, the center of the Alamo has grass and trees. I said, I’ll be out there. You tour all you want. Come back and pick me up under that tree right over there. It made me sick to my stomach getting that.

And Gettysburg will do the same thing even today, though I can release a lot of souls. They went around the Alamo and came back and picked me up and I got out of there and was happy to go out the front door. Yeah, too much energy going on. I’m not real fond of cities either. Right. It’s a lot. Well, what I’m getting from what you’re saying is that it’s…

its intent. It has everything to do with our intention as we come to ask the question. And also to, you know, what you were saying about the, you know, religion versus spirituality. How do we see God, you know, that divine in divination? And I think part of what dropped in for me is there’s a difference between looking outside of ourselves for the answer.

versus inside of our, like if when we are at one and we know that we are at one, then it isn’t a looking outside, it’s a looking within and into, right? I’m just trying to translate, my brain’s trying to process what you’re saying. There are all kinds of wonderful little signs in our lives if we will bother to observe them.

or pick them up and work with them. I was working six days a week, and the seventh day we were to take my daughter to the Philadelphia Zoo. And the day came and there was a ballpoint pen sitting on the mirror chest in our bedroom in the morning. And it is as though you’re pressing down on the point of the ballpoint, and the back part of it, it lifts up.

So I woke up and a pen from work, it said US Department of Agriculture on it, is sitting there waving at me. And I basically said, I don’t want anything to do with you. This is day seven and it’s the only day I have off. I work six days a week, 14 hours a day. I went in and woke my daughter up, came back to the bedroom and it’s still doing it. Went down, we had breakfast. I came back upstairs, it’s still doing it.

And I finally literally said out loud, I will pick you up and take you with me today. I put the pen in my pocket. We went to the big zoo. We went to the kids’ zoo. And on the way out of the kids’ zoo, there’s a wooden box there with a slot in it and a pile of papers. My daughter ran over to read it and it said, sign up, you might win a free trip back to the zoo.

You know what was not there? There was no pen. A pen. No pens. I handed her the pen, she filled it out and she won the trip back to the zoo. It was probably the only piece of paper in the box cause nobody had a pen. That is so great. You’re thinking that the pen’s trying to get you to work and the pen’s like, no, you, no, seriously, you want to just put me in your pocket. Just trust.

Just trust in what I’m trying to communicate. Trust the universe, it’s out there waiting. Exactly, trust the universe. And I think what you said too about that difference between choosing what we’re tuning into, right? The people singing a beautiful hymn, for example, versus like the junkyard or like you talked about, you know, the Alamo, it’s like, because I love what you’re saying because I think

we get fixated on the tools. And what you’re saying is there’s no difference between the Ouija board or the pendulum or your daughter’s hand. What the difference is, the intent of the person who’s using the tool and what is the energetic signature that they’re looking to connect with. Wow. There are two sources in this as far as I’m concerned. And that is Father Sky and

Mother Earth is source one, I would call that a natural source. If you’re going to play the Ouija board game or something, you may very well be talking almost entirely to spirit, not to the physical world as we so-called know it, or at least we say that that’s the world. It isn’t of course, because everything is all frequency and it doesn’t make any difference. You just turn your

frequency selector, which you learn to use to the frequency that you want, and you can find it from there. Once we teach them how to find water, it’s going to be the same wherever they are. And if you can learn to turn your selector to energy ley lines or copper or brass or oil or gas or whatever, it doesn’t really matter.

Hmm. One, one time I dated a girl in high school and I, she was a junior. I was a senior. And so I saw her in the halls, no, every day. And sometimes I’d even help her do the paper route that her brother had because he was a cross country runner. We take my jitney car and throw the papers and so forth. In any way, one morning I woke up.

And I called her on the phone, which I never did, because I would see her in school. And I said, don’t go to school. And, you know, she first two or three times I said it, she kind of took it. She knew I walked around with a forked stick in my hand, but the other stuff she didn’t know. And I said, just don’t go to school today. Stay home. Pretend you’re sick, whatever you need to do. Don’t go to school. And a fourth or fifth time I said it, she hung up on me.

She went to school, she took her history test, she got an A as always, and she went to gym and broke her ankle.

At that level, I was confused. I didn’t want to even think that I would help to hurt my girlfriend. But it was really, of course, viewing in from the outside third person, plural, I saw the activity before it took place. And of course, after that, she would listen. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah, that didn’t feel good for a long time. I stayed as far away from parapsychology as I could. Sure. So what you’re saying is there was a part of you that felt like, did I help this happen by stating it? Such a, right? And perhaps there was a little bit, right? Because then something, but, or maybe not. It’s like, because this is the thing too. It’s like,

when we see that future, it’s a moving target because free will, so many other factors can come in and shift that. So nothing is set in stone, but wow. Yeah, I bet she was a little startled. That’s why she hung up on you. Put pleasantly. She was weirded out. Oh my goodness. Do you have a…

a moment, where are we on time? We’re good, we’re good. May I ask you just to clarify because you said there’s really two sources, right? Where you can be tapping into Father Sky, Mother Earth or nature or spirit. And like it just, and when you are talking about spirit, you’re talking about the other side, I guess like, what is that distinction? Because sometimes people refer to

nature is spirit. Do you know what I mean? So what is the distinction you’re making there? The word Indian, which is a Native American or is it from the country India, it’s the same sort of problem with the language. I consider the Ouija board as feeling into

the information that is sent to us by people in previous generations. Having lost my wife of 57 years, about two years ago, and we have talked several times. And some of it’s been very interesting. When, when I was sitting there in the hall, the story I told you when I met Betsy, my,

was to go to a psychic who I’ve known very well for years. He’s from Canada. And yeah, I walked in and sat down. We didn’t even shake hands. We know each other so well. And right away he buckles up, his eyes wiggled, and he says, don’t you even think about coming up here to be with me. You’re not done down there yet.

And I knew who it was. Oh my goodness. Oh, I just got tears in my eyes. That’s okay. Me too. And a couple others. She says one time to one person, just keep doing what you’re doing. It’s important that you do it that way. And the last one, just remember she was a dyed in the wool scientist until she met me. She says, I am free up here to fly around among.

time zones and wormholes. And it’s a lot of fun. Ah. Fantastic. Just fantastic. Oh, that’s fantastic. Oh, that’s beautiful. Well, thank you for taking us there, Leroy. And what a beautiful gift. The words from your wife from the other side. And thank you for this time with us. It’s been a real gift, a real pleasure.

It’s been quite a journey.

Thank you.

Thanks for joining me on Wise Body, Ancient Soul. I hope it reminds you how magical and powerful you truly are. Kindly subscribe, rate, and review this podcast so more juicy light bringers like you can hear these transmissions. And if you’re looking to connect more deeply with your body and soul’s wisdom, visit CharisseSisou.com to learn how else we can play together. Here’s to your joy and wild success! From my heart to yours, I love you. Take what you need and pass it on.

dowsing, Leroy Bull, map dowsing, water wells, water witch, lost objects, universe, guides, map dowsing, dowser, remote viewing, water divining, spiritual journey, intent, frequencies, trust, tuning in

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