Zen and the Art of Hula: Dancing with the Absolute with Kumu Hula June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue

Please note: these time signatures aren’t quite accurate, since they were generated before editing… but they’ll point you in the right direction!

00:00 Introduction and Background

03:01 Early Beginnings and Training

05:55 Studying Hula with Kumu Hula Michael Pili Pang

08:55 The Importance of Lineage and Genealogy in Hula

11:57 The Connection Between Hula and Mindfulness

14:50 The Practice of Letting Go and Embracing Impermanence

23:09 Transcendence and the Mundane in Hula

24:02 The Joy of Learning and Embracing Beginner’s Mind

25:07 Training and Advancement in Hula

26:05 The Importance of Practice and Documentation

28:00 Craftsmanship in Hula

29:23 Learning Cultural Values through Hula

32:13 Working with Ego and Self-Awareness

33:31 Cultivating Compassion and Aloha

36:27 Hula as a Practice of Love and Joy

39:19 The Ongoing Practice of Enlightenment

41:37 Bringing Ancient Wisdom into Modern Life

45:51 Finding Presence and Love Amidst Challenges

50:14 Planting Seeds of Love and Kindness

The transcript is created prior to editing, so time stamps may be inaccurate, and it may include bonus material…!

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (00:00)

How do we live as human beings? Like the Navajo would say, you know, how to be a human being. Just that is like a spiritual practice in the 21st century.

So I think Hula has a lot to offer and so does Zen in trying to be a sane, rational human today amidst many challenges.

Charisse Sisou (00:39)

Sure, sure. Oh, that’s beautiful. I love that there was a siren going in the background. I was like, how perfect an analogy.

Ready to have a deeper conversation about body and soul, sacred leadership, and our collective evolution? Welcome to the Wise Body, Ancient Soul podcast with me, your host, Charisse Sisou.

Charisse Sisou (00:01)

I am so honored and delighted to introduce my Kumu Hula

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue, MPH Kumu Hula and Roshi.

co-founder of Zen Life and Meditation Center

Roshi June Ryushin Tanoue, has been practicing Zen since 1993.

She received Transmission on October 12, 2014, and was fully empowered as a Zen Teacher or Sensei and a Zen Buddhist Priest.

On December 27, 2022, she received Inka or final approval from her teacher as a Roshi (*”old teacher”). June is also a Kumu Hula, or a master teacher of hula. She founded her hula school.

called Halau i Ka Pono, the Hula School of Chicago, in September 2009.

Kumu June was born in Laupahoehoe on the Hamakua or Breath of the Ancestors coast on Hawaii Island. She began hula classes at age six through eight with Louise Beamer, and then danced off and on with other teachers like George Naope and Newton Hitchcock. She began studying seriously in 1988. with Kumu Hula Michael Pili Pang

his halau hula, Halau Hula Ka No’eau, in Waimea. And that began a wonderful journey of learning hula and becoming part of a halau. they won competitions, they performed all over the place, including New York City and Pittsburgh.

Kumu June went through traditional ‘uniki ritual and graduated as ‘Olapa or Dancer in 1994. ‘Olapa Ho’opa’a or Dancer and Keeper of the Chants in 1996 and achieved Kumu Hula.

or Master Teacher in June, 2000.

I am honored to consider her one of my mentors and teachers and so delighted to bring her compassionate wisdom to you today.

Charisse Sisou (00:05)

You’re a teacher on so many levels. What? Well, I was going to ask you what called you to hula, but you started at age six. So is that just your parents called you to hula? Or was did that desire come from you? How did you, how did you get started there?

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (00:26)

Well, I know my father used to play a lot of Hawaiian music on the radio when he would work in his garage. He was a mechanic and he loved Hawaiian music. And so I think from that and my love of dance, you know, I remember just when I was young, just, you know, dancing all over the place when I was little, making up a spontaneous dance. And so,

Charisse Sisou (00:38)

. . .

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (00:54)

My mother tells me I asked her to take me to hula class at age six So I don’t really remember that but I do remember loving it and then So it was a natural outcome of living in Hawaii with my You know, whatever was born in this body

Charisse Sisou (01:15)

how beautiful that you you had that desire so so early on. It feels like it was in your blood.

So take me forward from there because, you know, I know you’re going through this process with your students now of helping, I’m going to use the term graduate. It’s a very Western term, but as a dancer, right? What does, what does that mean? Take us through that, that hula journey. What do each of these stages mean and what does it take to kind of to achieve that?

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (01:29)

you

That’s a good question. I was really lucky to go back to Hawaii after living on the continent for 10 plus years. So I got a master’s from the University of Hawaii in public health nutrition. And in 1975, I left Hawaii and worked in Portland, Oregon.

Charisse Sisou (02:18)

Mm. Yeah.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (02:18)

at the food bank. So there I studied hula off and on and I just loved the movement. But when we came back to Hawaii in 1988, came back because my father had just had a heart attack. So I wanted to be close to family. And just five minutes from where I lived,

Charisse Sisou (02:40)

you

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (02:42)

I found a Kumu Hula, Michael Pili Pang, because I was looking for hula. What I really was looking for was when I used to see, you know, in like the Merrie Monarch, the big hula festival, right, or any kind of event, and they would have a Hawaiian chanter, or chant, a chanters, you know, chanting in Hawaii, tears would always come to my eyes. And so I thought, what is that that does that?

Charisse Sisou (02:53)

you

you

Me too.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (03:11)

And I thought, you know, I want to learn that something coming from the heart, which I didn’t really understand at the moment. But I knew it was just something so beautiful that I would start crying. So I looked around for a hula teacher and there he was, my kumu, Michael Pili Pang, five minutes from where I lived. And so I joined his halau and I remember

Charisse Sisou (03:20)

. .

. .

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (03:41)

the beginner class, which you know you’ve done the beginner class and after about a month my my kumu asked if I would like to join another class.

which was his advanced, a little more advanced than the beginner class. They were studying Kahiko, the ancient dance which you have also started. Yes, so I remember going to that class and just watching because I knew nothing and they were dancing and I remember thinking how beautiful it was. I was just really struck and they were all dancing together. He was chanting.

Charisse Sisou (03:57)

Just started, yeah.

Hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (04:21)

And slowly I got integrated into that class. So it just started from there and he was old school. He was younger than me by 12 years, I think, something like that. He started his halau when he was 25. I started my halau, what was that? It was 15 years ago.

Charisse Sisou (04:32)

you

you

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (04:46)

right? And I’m 70, I’ll be 74 this year. So he was very well trained by Maiki Aiu Lake, his teacher who is the mother of the Hawaiian Renaissance.

Charisse Sisou (04:50)

That’s amazing. You’re a walking testament to the rejuvenation of dance and hula and mindfulness because yeah.

you

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (05:12)

who graduated a lot of kumu hulas, the famous ones you see today like Robert Cazimero, Mapuana de Silva, a lot of very good kumu hulas. So he was very well trained. He was Chinese American also, so he was not, but he was very close to his teacher and to her husband.

Charisse Sisou (05:26)

you

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (05:41)

who was Kahauanu Lake. And he headed the trio that made beautiful music of the time of the 70s and 80s. And she would choreograph the hulas that he would write the songs and melodies, usually with Maddy Lamb. And she would choreograph them and these would become classics in her styling, in her, what we call lineage or genealogy. So,

Charisse Sisou (05:45)

Mm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (06:10)

Hula has a genealogy that goes back, I think the first recorded hula is maybe 900 AD, so there’s a line. So I was trained very well and he, you know, Auntie Maiki wanted you to take notes to see, to put hula sheets together, which is the hands and the feet motions.

Charisse Sisou (06:14)

you

amazing.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (06:40)

to translate the Hawaiian also because the Hawaiian language is such a beautiful language and they only have 12 letters I think in their alphabet. So words can mean many different things. So the power of the words is very important. So translating, you get to learn Hawaiian, this beautiful language. So you know what you’re dancing, cause Hula is telling a story, right? So he, we would have,

Charisse Sisou (06:54)

Yes.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (07:09)

have quizzes regularly about the translation, the Hawaiian, the Hawaiian words and the translation. And we would also have tests on dancing. So there was a combination of the Western with the cultural, which, you know, they didn’t have actually written language until the missionaries came, which was.

Charisse Sisou (07:24)

Mm -hmm.

Right.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (07:38)

1860s or so. Right. And so it was all passed down orally, these dances and everything. So Auntie Maiki started tests and, you know, writing, which is great because now, you know, in back in the day, there were people who were trained for memory to remember all and then to pass it on to the next person who was trained in the memory. But today.

Charisse Sisou (07:45)

Mm -hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (08:08)

We need the book. I need the book. You know, my memory I can see is leaving. The other beautiful thing about hula, you know, that my kumu said, you know, that the talent is on loan to you. Isn’t that a beautiful way to look at impermanence? Which is very Buddhist.

Charisse Sisou (08:11)

Yeah

Yeah.

well, who is it on loan from?

Or where is that coming from?

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (08:37)

Well, who knows the answer to that question, right? Our ancestors before us, we have their DNA, right? We have their DNA. So and then who knows what else? Where else? Who else are our ancestors? Because now when you are kind of,

Charisse Sisou (08:48)

Hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (09:02)

graduated, ‘uniki’d, right, in this lineage, you become part of the lineage too. So there’s something coming through from the past, the ancestors. May not be blood, but there is something coming through.

Charisse Sisou (09:17)

Right. Well, in this, I relate to the experience you shared about when I first heard the chants. I would even just I would see a picture of the islands and I would start to cry. But the chants really moved me. And when I took the first Kahiko class with you and you said something really interesting in that class about.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (09:44)

you

Charisse Sisou (09:47)

We are dancing not upon the earth, but really with earth. Am I remembering that right? Like it’s like a deeper level to your point about, you know, somehow the ancestors dance through us through this dance. And it feels like it’s because, you know, the breath, the voice we’re we’re using the same chants because that’s how that lineage was passed down. It wasn’t passed down written. It was passed down orally.

the chants the movement. So in a way, it’s like by embodying the same words and sounds and movements of our ancestors, even if there is no blood connection, we are embodying them here in the here and now is that, yeah, tell me more about that because that’s like my world.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (10:38)

Right. So it’s very, right. So I’m also, you know, I’ve been a practitioner of Zen Buddhism for quite a number of years now. I think I started in about 1993 or something like that, where I started sitting Zazen, which is meditation, a kind of mindfulness meditation where you’re just sitting and practicing, noticing thoughts.

Charisse Sisou (10:50)

you

you

Mm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (11:08)

and letting them go. So noticing that they are not solid, they’re just thoughts, impermanent, they kind of float in, who knows from where, and then they float out going who knows where. Right? So that practice has been absolutely key for my hula practice, actually. Very key. For me, you know, everybody’s different, but for me, it has been

Charisse Sisou (11:15)

. .

Mm -hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (11:38)

really, really important because our minds can get so full of things that are so not important and so not real. And so the practice is letting go of it so that you don’t get overwhelmed with thoughts. That is a strong practice and it is not easy to work with your thoughts. It’s a discipline.

Charisse Sisou (11:49)

Isn’t that the truth? Yeah.

you

Absolutely.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (12:07)

Right? It is a discipline. So when I say about where you become, become the earth. So on one level, yes, you are dancing on the earth. You are in an embodied form. And we call that the relative form in Zen, Buddhism. Right? We all are different. We all have our own individuality.

And there is also an absolute form, which is where we are deeply so not individual. We are so connected to one another. We could not have our life without the earth, without the sun, without the rain. So this idea that we are an independent entity and we’re just going to do it alone.

Charisse Sisou (12:36)

you

Right.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (13:05)

Alone, I mean on a certain level. Yes, we have responsibilities We have goals we want to accomplish we have to put forth effort right and on another level It’s hard to explain this other level well what in Zen we call emptiness emptiness, which doesn’t mean a void it just means it’s empty of this individual self that we have

constructed this ego that is so all important on the relative world, right? Everything is about me. I, me, mine in the relative world. But when you think of it in a larger sense, Natalie Goldberg, who I have been studying writing with through her workshop, she’s a Zen practitioner and a wonderful writer. It’s like a

Charisse Sisou (13:36)

you

Mm. Mm, mm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (14:02)

she was talking about monkey mind. I think everybody’s familiar with monkey mind and we kind of denigrate it, but you know, it’s life. This is how our mind works. And so it’s not about pushing it away, but it’s about seeing it and going, okay, I see you. Now I can work with you. Okay. Now I can let go and I see you come back. Okay. It’s the practice of letting go.

Charisse Sisou (14:05)

Yes.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (14:31)

But monkey mind, if you look at the vast sky, the vast sky is a metaphor for this emptiness that we talk about in Zen. I mean, it’s vast, it’s not a void. It’s got so many clouds in it. It’s got planets in it, universes in it. Monkey mind is just a little dot in that vastness. Uh -huh.

And yet we think the monkey mind is the vastness, but it’s not. It is just a little dot. Like if you put, you know, marker over there in the vast empty sky. And so that’s, that’s your monkey mind is there, you know, cause you are also the vast sky. Right? Yes. Yes. So, so.

Charisse Sisou (15:13)

I just got a visual of a huge sky with just like a little arrow like, you are here. You know?

Exactly, yeah.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (15:31)

So I love, you know, if we can remember that image and we’re so caught up in the monkey mind, can we just pause, take a breath and just kind of look around or just feel, right? Feel that you are part of everything and maybe your little drama is not that important, but you got to work with it, right? Because for some people it is just,

Charisse Sisou (15:51)

Mm -hmm.

Great.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (16:00)

overpowering.

Charisse Sisou (16:03)

Yeah. Well, and I, I, it’s so beautiful what you said earlier. It’s not about pushing it away or, uh, you know, bypassing denouncing anything like that. It’s really, it felt so compassionate. What you said about, you know, this is life. It’s normal. And, you know, here’s part of the, you know, the mindfulness. And this is where I see the connection with hula too, is being able to step back and see.

the connectedness with that. And right that this is just a little fragment. We can we can see it. We can look at it. We can witness it. For me, that can what I’m hearing you say and how I’m relating it in my body to hula as a dancer is I know when I’m dancing, as soon as I get in my head.

That’s when I lose. That’s when I lose the beat, lose the choreo, you know, lose whatever it is. And it’s it’s such a practice. You know, when I really got that as a dancer, it completely changed my dance. When I really got, oh, the more I’m just present because what you’re talking about to me, that just feels like presence and connecting. Then, yeah, yeah, tell me.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (17:10)

Yes, and in the beginning when you’re learning something, you do have to use your mind because it is a mind, a brain -body connection, right? Because you are learning different movements that are new that your body does not know. And

Charisse Sisou (17:28)

Absolutely.

true.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (17:40)

repetition is a key then, just like you’re memorizing a piece of poetry or something. You just have to be with it for a long time for it to become into the muscle memory. So it’s not like you’re going somewhere else. You’re present in your body. You’re doing different movements until the body gets it. And then you can add a different element to it. Not so…

Charisse Sisou (17:53)

Mm -hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (18:09)

hard focus on that, but that you can start to think about story or you can just be into feeling, but you’re always aware because you’re dancing. Hula is a group activity. You’re dancing with others. So you don’t want to, you know, you know, bang into another person and you know, hit another person, right? So you are aware.

Charisse Sisou (18:10)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (18:35)

at all times. And there are those moments though of transcendence, like anything, right? When you’re so into it that you forget that self that is so self -conscious, you know, you can just kind of let it go. And it could be just for a moment, but it’s a beautiful moment. And we don’t get attached to that moment like, oh, I’m not doing it right because I don’t have this feeling anymore. No, no, it’s all part of it.

Charisse Sisou (18:48)

Yes.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (19:05)

There’s no one way to do it. Transcendence and the mundane, you know, it’s both together. It’s kind of like the absolute and the relative. They are both together in this world.

Charisse Sisou (19:21)

That’s true. That’s true.

Thank you for that. I love that because I feel like I am always kind of pursuing that transcendent moment. But to your point, it’s with a gentle hand. It doesn’t mean that I’m doing it wrong if I’m not reaching it because exactly like you say, there is that point of learning. I love being in, you know, after being a professional belly dancer for so many years and coming into hula.

I love being in that beginner’s mind again of knowing nothing, learning everything from scratch.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (20:03)

That’s good for your brain. I think that’s really a healthy thing to do actually for everybody is to keep learning something new. Always, yes. I think it’s great what you’re doing.

Charisse Sisou (20:14)

Cool. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Taking us back into the hula journey. So the because I I was really I thought this was so cool. So you were talking about to reach that uniki right dancer is like the what you saw in your halau was bringing together kind of old and new like the the oral as well as.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (20:33)

Yeah.

Charisse Sisou (20:43)

Let’s have quizzes and tests and have written documentation of the dances, right? So how, how do you go from what’s the next level? How do you get to Kumu? Like what does, what does that require?

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (21:02)

Well, I can tell you about my training, right? So, I mean, I was working full time at the time as well. Oh, and there was a moment somewhere I was not working in between jobs, which was very helpful because it can really, you know, as you advance, there’s more things to do, you know, make your drum, which takes a long time, you know, out of coconut. And, but, so, so it’s really,

Charisse Sisou (21:04)

Yeah!

Yeah. Yeah.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (21:31)

about life. Hula is life. So there’s a lot of hula things to do. You’re doing performances at the same time, you know, other performance besides trying to get all your work done for hula. Keeping up with your book is so important, right? Because I can attest now I need my book. Then I didn’t need my book, you know.

But now I need to see, oh my God, how do I do this hula again? Thank God I’ve got the hands and the feet. It helps me remember to, at the time you might not think, oh, I don’t think this now, but it’s very helpful. Yeah.

Charisse Sisou (22:07)

Yeah.

Well, and also, you know, there’s a difference between knowing a handful of dances and now, you know, in your head or you’ve danced hundreds of dances, right? So, of course, it’s so nice to have that reference. Tell me more about the yeah, making your own drum, making because I think this is.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (22:20)

I’m not.

Yeah, it’s a lot.

Charisse Sisou (22:38)

This for me, you know, I was trained in Western dance like I had. I did the ballet thing for many years and then I did Egyptian dance, which and so it’s like I went from something where there’s no like very, very codified right names for everything to Middle Eastern dance where it’s still like completely orally passed down. Everyone has different names for all of the things, you know, and then coming back around to Hula.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (22:52)

right.

Charisse Sisou (23:07)

What I really am seeing is it’s not just the dance, right? It’s the family of the halau, of the school that you are a part of. It’s the learning of the culture. So tell me more about this. So you had to make a drum?

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (23:26)

Oh yeah, we had to make a number of instruments that we use our own, which is super, which is great because we learned, you know, it’s the feathered gourd that we had to sew. And as you’re making this, it’s also very meditative, right? So you’re learning a craft that, you know, that people made in the old days. What else did we make? We had to make our double headed gourd.

Charisse Sisou (23:37)

Mm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (23:56)

We have to make feather leis for our head. So all of these, they’re kind of like, how do you approach your life? Okay, I’ve never done this before. You know, am I gonna freak out now and just be stopped, blocked? Or am I gonna freak out and go, okay, I know this is one of the way I…

I am when something new happens, but can I, okay, just approach it step by step. Okay, I’ll read the directions, I’ll get a little instruction from my kumu, I might ask my hula sister, and then I’m gonna follow the instructions the best way I can. This is like your life, right? Like anything in your life, you’re learning anything, but in hula, you’re learning a cultural practice.

Charisse Sisou (24:42)

Absolutely.

Yeah, it’s a real immersion.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (24:50)

And then as you’re learning the cultural practice, you’re learning values also of the Hawaiian culture, which is so different than Western culture. Very respectful, very hands -on, not just head, right? But very hands -on, dancing, making things, writing, all of the cultural values.

are part of the activity.

Charisse Sisou (25:22)

Mm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (25:25)

And so making a drum is a huge thing, right? You have to select or find, you know, a tree, a coconut tree that has fallen. You have to, you know, ask a friend, you know, to get you something like this tall you know? Luckily, my kumu had done that, you know, and had gotten pieces, so I didn’t have to do that. And then…

I’ve never carved before, but it was great, you know, using this mallet to hit their tools for carving. I had to learn how to use tools. I have to learn how to use electrical tools, too, you know, like saws and things like that. But we got help also. We had to make a knee drum made out of coconut and the skin of a fish.

Kala, I think it’s the surgeon fish. It has a little unicorn horn. And so you had to have, you know, if you had a friend, like my brothers fish. So I actually got fish. They refished and they got, but they, you know, you’re using the skin of the fish. They go with the spear. So you can’t have a fish with a spear in the middle of the body, right?

Charisse Sisou (26:26)

Mm.

Right. That would make a bad drumhead. Yeah.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (26:47)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, it’s all, and the drum actually, the drum head, usually you use shark skin, but we didn’t have access to shark skin unless you knew a fisherman who got a shark. And so we use cowhide. So you use what you have, you know, that’s available. Yeah. So all of that is teaching you a cultural practice.

Charisse Sisou (26:55)

Mmm.

Mm. Mm.

Yes.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (27:14)

And so you have to let leave your Western mind aside. And I’ve got to say to my teacher was very strict and, you know, he was young and we’re older. And so, you know, he would get really mad if we didn’t. And, you know, there would be some yell yelling, right?

Charisse Sisou (27:20)

Mm. Mm -hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (27:39)

So that was really great in terms of being able to work with your ego. And there’s so much involved, because in Zen, you’re really looking inward and you’re working with what’s there, old patterns that you’ve learned from when you were young. You’re trying to work with it. You can’t see everything, but you can see a lot.

Charisse Sisou (27:45)

Hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (28:03)

and go, oh, wow, that’s interesting. Then you’re breaking a habit, which you know is hard to break a habit, it’s repetition, right? So it was super in terms, in Zen, we say, you know, everybody has Buddha nature. We’re all born with it, which is this loving, open, openness, wisdom. That’s there in everyone.

Charisse Sisou (28:11)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (28:33)

So that was a good thing to really try to integrate when you’re getting yelled at for not doing the step right that you think you’re doing right, but you’re not, which is so interesting, right? So that was a great opportunity to practice. Wow, I noticed, you know, I’m feeling really hurt and I’m feeling really unworthy.

Charisse Sisou (28:48)

Yeah.

Hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (28:57)

which is a normal thing that most of us feel in our life because our culture is kind of ingrained in terms of, you know, that we’re not worthy. Children have it at a really young age, right? They’re not worthy. Capitalists or whatever reason why, you know, buy this product, you’re going to be beautiful, right? So it was a great time to really put into practice, okay, where’s my Buddha nature now? Yeah.

Charisse Sisou (29:10)

Yeah.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (29:27)

Is it there? Okay, why is it? Why can’t I not see it right now? Okay, so I have to feel this these feeling of unworthiness. All right, I’m gonna work with it. Right. It’s interesting, though. You know, because it can be really deep and people can hold grudges that you don’t even know you have a grudge. Who is it hurting? It’s you that it’s hurting. Not anybody else. Yeah, so it’s such a

Charisse Sisou (29:31)

Yeah.

Yeah.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (29:56)

a whole process of self -awakening and realization. And then when you realize it, then you have to put it into practice. You have to start saying, okay, I believe in myself. I love myself. The loving kindness meditation is such a great one for when you’re feeling unworthy. May I be happy. May I be healthy.

May I be safe. May I live with ease. That’s such a beautiful self acknowledgement, self blessing. And then when you can really kind of work and feel that really deep in your heart. And some people have a really hard time doing that. I mean, even I, myself, I have a hard time doing that. And so I say, okay, so.

You know, you’re practicing with this. So maybe you can, if you have a pet that you love, you can start to send loving kindness to the pet, right? And then you’re saying, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be safe, may you live with ease. And when you do this over and over again, see if you notice your heart and what is your heart doing, right?

Charisse Sisou (31:02)

Hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (31:21)

Is it starting to feel good and kind of, you know, maybe a little bit opening? That to me is that generation of compassion and aloha, really. That’s what you’re doing in the heart when you’re doing that. And when you’re dancing and you’re really enjoying yourself, you’re opening your heart then, which is a great practice. The whole culture is based on aloha and generosity and love.

Charisse Sisou (31:32)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (31:52)

And so it’s such a wonderful culture and practice.

Charisse Sisou (31:58)

Yes. Oh my gosh. It’s so beautiful listening to you talk because I really see the way that the Zen teaching and the hula teaching kind of really flowed back and forth for you. Thank you for being a teacher that does not yell at us because that requires compassion because I know sometimes we are frustrating when we haven’t done our homework or practiced.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (32:18)

I’m sorry.

I’m sorry.

Charisse Sisou (32:28)

So I do recognize that. Well, I think too, you hit on something so beautiful.

And that really made an impression on me how hula is about really communicating this spirit of Aloha. What can we dive into? Because I feel like it’s related to this loving kindness, right? That you’re talking about. And I think part of why this dance is, you know, we’re still fascinated by it and still dancing it is because you feel that.

love being communicated. Tell, well tell, you tell me more about that. What’s your experience with that? What’s your understanding, inner standing of Aloha?

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (33:21)

So when you have really integrated the hula and you’re just dancing for the joy of it, right? You’ve really integrated the motions. You understand maybe not each word, but you understand the gist of what you’re dancing. Then that joy that comes from your heart, it just radiates your entire…

being and I’m sure you have felt this. The cool thing about it is that I think in neuroscience, they talk about mirror neurons. Mirror neurons are so fascinating because when spectators or people in the audience are watching you, they are actually feeling.

the same feelings you are feeling. So if you’re feeling like, oh my God, I don’t know if I know this dance and I, you know, I think this is the next motion. Well, they’re going to feel that too. So, so, so one great thing about performances for me is that it’s kind of a little goal that it’s a little spur to get you to practice, to integrate this into your body.

because you want to have a great experience. And I know people have talked about, you know, stage fright, and that’s a real thing. And for me, that’s just your body getting ready. You know, all the hormones, what adrenaline are going, which are actually good because that keeps you alert and you know what’s going on, you know?

And so if you can work with that, but you gotta do that discipline ahead of time, right? The practice ahead of time. If you haven’t done that, well, unless you’re, I don’t know, somebody who doesn’t need practice, then I don’t know, I haven’t seen too many people like that, if any. But yeah, that discipline, that effort is very important to put in.

Charisse Sisou (35:30)

Yeah.

Hmm… Mm -hmm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (35:40)

regular, regular, you know, and that discipline is in our Zen Buddhist practice. It’s a practice of a bodhisattva. A bodhisattva is an enlightened being that’s

that’s actually helping others to also be enlightened. Actually, they’re working towards enlightenment and they’re kind of putting off their enlightenment and they’re helping others to kind of be at the same level where you all get enlightened together. You’re all practicing, right? It’s enlightenment is practice, we say. Practice is enlightenment. It’s not out here, but it’s just where you are, what you’re doing right now.

Yeah.

Charisse Sisou (36:27)

Yeah, I feel like what you’re speaking right now is…

This is exactly the thing. There is no sort of like achieving, even the word achieving is so not appropriate, but like achieving enlightenment, right? It’s not that. It is a practice, it is a discipline. And I think you’re speaking something so important and so vital, especially today, because I think we have this yearning where, or we think, I’ll just speak for myself, you know.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (36:36)

you

Yeah.

Charisse Sisou (37:03)

I thought, oh, once I get this or once I get to here, I’ll be happy and I’ll never work. I’ll never be concerned again. And it’s like this constantly moving point when I have that right relationship, when I have a certain amount of money coming in the door, when whatever it looks like. And yet, you know what? I’ve been so grateful to learn over my, you know, 50 times around the sun is that it’s an ongoing practice. There is.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (37:07)

Yes. Yes.

Thank you.

Charisse Sisou (37:32)

There is no point where it’s like, well, I don’t need to meditate anymore. I’m all done with that. Like that doesn’t happen. It’s like, it’s actually that ongoing practice, that ongoing discipline. But then that gives us that ability to touch transcendence in the mundane it feels.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (37:36)

Thank you.

Yes, that’s absolutely right. We say hula is life. Zen is life.

Charisse Sisou (38:01)

Right. It just teaches you. And I’m just thinking, you know, what you were describing about the hula practice, like making the drums, making, you know, the lei . There’s such an appreciation for that. You know what I mean? Like, and it’s so different from the culture that we live in here now that many of us do where, oh, we need something. Well, especially now we need something. You just go to Amazon and you order it. Right.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (38:22)

Yeah.

Charisse Sisou (38:31)

And yet, you know, if I think of my grandparents or even more so my great grandparents now, they made everything themselves or my my my grandparents on my mother’s side, they made every there was no, oh, gosh, I need this tool. Let me get down to the local hardware store. No, they would look around and say, how do I how do I fashion this from what I have? And it was such a different way of being connected with our environment of.

using the resources available to us. And it’s so fascinating because it’s like it’s not necessarily about going backwards. But I think part of what we can learn from these practices that go back so far into ancient times is there’s so much wisdom that we need in the right here and now. That’s not about going backwards in time, but rather bringing and I feel like.

big part of why I have wise body ancient soul is to bring ancient or I see it as like eternal wisdom forward so that we are present with it now because we’re needing it more than ever it feels because we’re pulled in these different ways because there are ways that things are we could say easier or different or harder you know what I mean it’s but just different right then maybe the the environment our ancestors found themselves in.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (39:45)

Right.

Charisse Sisou (39:58)

but the practices are still so, so valuable. Wow, that’s the ancestors going, yes, I agree.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (40:04)

I’m sorry.

Right. So, you know, how do we bring that ancient wisdom into our modern life? And I say one step at a time, right? Whatever we’re doing, and it’s so Zen, we’re in the moment and we’re doing it. And maybe we need to, you know, expand our vision. You know, how?

How do we live as human beings? Like the Navajo would say, you know, how to be a human being. Just that is like a spiritual practice in the 21st century.

So I think Hula has a lot to offer and so does Zen in trying to be a sane, rational human today amidst many challenges.

Charisse Sisou (41:17)

Sure, sure. Oh, that’s beautiful. I love that there was a siren going in the background. I was like, how perfect an analogy. And you’re talking about, you know, finding this presence today, you know, amidst all of those challenges.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (41:23)

I’m sorry.

Oh. Oh.

and yeah.

So I’ve been following the moon, the Hawaiian moon calendar now, which is really a great way to live there. You can get it on Instagram, Ka Mahina, or I think Facebook Ka Mahina, you can sign up. And it’s really great, you know, on the different moon days and what does that mean? And I’ve actually forgotten today, but it’s a Kūlua or Kūkahi.

moon, which is a good day for planting. You know, the ancestors are very present. Ku means to be upright. So if you plant now the seeds, they will grow tall and strong. So, so for me, seed planting is such a great metaphor too. Right? How, what seeds are we going to plant today?

in our lives. So, and I don’t think we have to think too hard and long on it because a lot of it is the actually doing something, you know, how to be upright in our world today. You know, that’s being kind for sure. Maybe it’s doing something you’ve been putting off, just getting right into it and trying to make a little dent.

Charisse Sisou (43:03)

you

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (43:05)

Maybe it’s not denigrating yourself. You know how we talk so harshly to ourselves, kind of let that go. Maybe it’s having that conversation with somebody we really need to have a conversation with. And practicing with that aloha, aloha heart of kindness as much as possible.

Charisse Sisou (43:30)

Beautiful. That’s beautiful. What? And I think planting the seeds, you know, I think even just in the context of our conversation, I remember a teacher told me years ago, it was in the context of.

you know, dancing to Egyptian music. She was like, always know what you’re dancing to, right? Like just you, you emphasize this too in the hula, like know what it is that you’re dancing to. But her, her point was, you know, especially for us Western dancers, we’re like, oh, this has got a great beat. And then we’re just out there like dancing away. And it’s like this political, you know, like protest song. And we’re like, hi, you know, like know what you’re dancing to. And her point was you never know who is in the audience. You never know.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (44:01)

I’m sorry.

Charisse Sisou (44:14)

who is in the audience and what they know that you don’t know or, you know, that they’re like, there’s going to be that Arabic speaker or whatever who’s going to know and will, you know, see the disparity in the dance. But but I I always think of that because even in this conversation, you know, someone listening, it’s always my intention. Like, what are those seeds that we are planting with this? And it might be, oh, maybe Hula is something to check out. Right. Like you as a young girl, like.

Take me to hula. I want to dance hula, you know, or, you know, or some will hear something and go, oh gosh, you know, I’ve always wanted to explore Zen and, um, you know, connect with meditation or even just thinking about what we talked about earlier, you know, having a more compassionate frame for our monkey mind, you know,

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (44:44)

you

Charisse Sisou (45:11)

Because again, too, people can like that denigration, right? That you talked about, like we’re so hard on ourselves, right? And yet how we treat ourselves is like that’s what ripples out into, you know. So that’s so beautiful. So beautiful and so perfect that today is the day for planting seeds. So before we close, are there any final seeds that you would like to plant?

for our listeners.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (45:41)

I have a favorite Hawaiian proverb. Mary Kavena Pukui put this book together, ‘Olelo Noe Ao, Hawaiian Poetical Sayings and Proverbs. And it goes something like this. E lei kau, e lei ho ‘o i lo, i ke aloha. Love.

is worn like a lei through the summers and winters. Love is everlasting.

Charisse Sisou (46:18)

That’s beautiful. Can I, can I ask you to repeat that? Cause I think my stomach was growling when you said it the first time. So I went, you know, just in case that comes across in the recording and you’re saying this beautiful words and it’s like, so one more, one more time.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (46:25)

Oh, okay. All right.

Oh no, okay.

Okay, yeah, this is just a beautiful, beautiful proverb. E lei kau, e lei ho ‘o ilo, i ke aloha. Love is worn like a lei through the summers and winters. Love is everlasting, which for me means love is everywhere. And that is what lasts.

our love.

Charisse Sisou (47:13)

I mean, mic drop, there you go. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time today, Kumu. Where can people connect with you?

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (47:14)

I’m gonna go.

So they can go to the website, halauikapono .org, or if you, you know, it’s a lot to remember, Hula School Oak Park. That’s where we’re located. We’re in the first suburb west of Chicago, Oak Park, Hula. Oh yes, we have.

Charisse Sisou (47:44)

Yes. But you have virtual classes as well. So that’s what I love so much is you can train in person, but you can also train virtually.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (47:53)

Yes, online. So we have beginner classes on Tuesdays from 11 to 12 noon, CSD, Chicago time. And that’s the only beginner class I have right now. But hopefully there will be more in the future. And we are celebrating our 15th anniversary this year, 15 years that Halau has formed. I’ve actually been teaching for 20,

years and you know I have learned so much in the last 20 years from when I first began as a kumu hula you know you think you think that oh you’re a kumu hula you know everything but when you’re just beginning as a kumu hula you’re like you know my husband’s

Charisse Sisou (48:24)

Mm.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (48:45)

like there’s three stages right there’s an immature stage

and then there’s a growing stage and then mature. So this 20 years for me have been, you know, from immature to growing, you know, I think I’m heading toward mature, but it’s hard to know. So anyway.

Charisse Sisou (49:03)

That’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. And I’ll have the links to everything will be in the show notes in the description on YouTube, you know, on the website page. So for sure, people can connect with you as well as with the Zen Life Meditation Center too. So thank you again for your time today. So beautiful.

June Yoshiko Kaililani Ryushin Tanoue (49:27)

All right, thank you so much. Thank you, Charisse. Mahalo.

Thanks for joining me on Wise Body, Ancient Soul. I hope it reminds you how magical and powerful you truly are. Kindly subscribe, rate, and review this podcast so more juicy light bringers like you can hear these transmissions. And if you’re looking to connect more deeply with your body and soul’s wisdom, visit CharisseSisou.com to learn how else we can play together. Here’s to your joy and wild success! From my heart to yours, I love you. Take what you need and pass it on.